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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Ove Interest? Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2025 09:56:56 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 131 Message-ID: <vqcd3o$304r8$2@dont-email.me> References: <vq7b0j$1v155$1@dont-email.me> <v1eesj1afpl0s266dieqqbf15kkjg986d4@4ax.com> <3j3fsjl1o2ve00dbrbqbirg73nmvk5tna0@4ax.com> <vq8jgp$295bb$2@dont-email.me> <0jkfsj9cn7dm5g6s90l1o01p8k3bem8qt9@4ax.com> <vq9us7$2g05k$2@dont-email.me> <o66hsj50vtkesfs1cq58dunkma5qe4qp8d@4ax.com> <vqab7g$2igoj$2@dont-email.me> <sdqhsj1g7m216gnkbeqmigb80h6jchhq0u@4ax.com> <vqattr$2ltco$1@dont-email.me> <am7isjh2seg9g7podldj34l5ch97gbr1us@4ax.com> <vqbahm$2rafp$2@dont-email.me> <fipisj9h152rk7hjnu38soldm0ppcm70al@4ax.com> <vqcccj$30mo6$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:56:57 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e3a311516feb02ba7522a563237848ea"; logging-data="3150696"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19CLB4J7sQeo9ayIwkwL3pH4V5kWJPNAj8=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:IqC8aMx1bJZYquO5ifaZej9Bx3Y= In-Reply-To: <vqcccj$30mo6$3@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 6868 On 3/6/2025 9:44 AM, AMuzi wrote: > On 3/6/2025 3:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 00:07:01 -0500, Frank Krygowski >> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> On 3/5/2025 11:38 PM, John B. wrote: >>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:31:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ownership of a firearm is one thing but being readily >>>>> accessible and ready to fire is another. Under many local >>>>> ordinances, firearms must be locked, which greatly stymies >>>>> defense when decisions are final in less than a second. >>> >>> Which reminds me of John's personal tale of a real home invasion. That >>> paragraph may explain (in part) why his gun did him no good at all. Only >>> the most fearful homeowner would keep his gun on his person just in case >>> someone burst into the home. >> >> True, but having a gun close at hand does not necessarily mean it has >> to be on your person. >> >>>>> Then there's software. Most firearms owners do not get >>>>> regular range time and so will more probably fumble away >>>>> decisive time or even shoot themselves than successfully >>>>> defend under sudden, immediate attack and under a wave of >>>>> adrenaline. >>> >>> Right. And even most target shooting for sport would probably do little >>> to prevent that fumbling, because it doesn't usually involve super-fast >>> grabbing the gun out of storage, quickly loading it, then quickly >>> hitting a target. Practicing skills is a highly specific exercise. >> >> Having a gun locked up in storage makes it useless. Having a gun >> unloaded makes it almost as useless. Best practice is fully loaded, >> meaning one in the pipe and with safeties off. >> >>>>> And then there's negligence and yes, sadly, would-be >>>>> defenders do shoot relatives and other innocents after >>>>> hearing a bump in the night. >>> >>> And it's not just mistaking innocents by mistake. I'm sure that a much >>> larger percentage of intra-household shooting victims are shot >>> deliberately. A thug of a husband gets furious at his wife and blows her >>> away. >> >> Very rare. The majority of male violence to females regard fists and >> the notorious blunt objects. More likely the female has enough of the >> male abuser and blows him away. That's not necessarily a bad thing. >> >>> Good points in those three paragraphs. >>> >>>>> So while I'm generally supportive of firearms for self >>>>> defense, especially home defense, I recognize this is a >>>>> varied, complex and unclear area in many aspects. >>>> >>>> I came across this study just the other day >>>> https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506 >>>> a total of 420 home killing of which 209 were committed by firearm and >>>> 211 by other means. >>>> >>>> Now, any killing is a terrible thing but one has to view with some >>>> skepticism someone that ignores the major cause of death to emphasize >>>> the minor cause. >>>> >>>> Can his motives be viewed as impartial, or simply a means of >>>> emphasizing his own opinions. >>> >>> You're dancing away from the question at hand. I said all the data I've >>> found indicates a gun in the home makes the occupants less safe, and >>> more likely to be shot by that gun. >> >> <LOL> Correlation does not imply causation. >> >>> Your source said the same: "After controlling for these >>> characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly >>> and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide >>> (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). >>> Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or >>> intimate acquaintance. >>> "Conclusions: ... Rather than confer protection, guns kept in the home >>> are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family >>> member or intimate acquaintance." >> >> Nonsense, but I believe that illegal drugs kept in the house might by >> risky. >> >>> You don't seem to realize that you've yet again corroborated my >>> position. You're failing at logic, John. >> >> You get to believe whatever you want, but I notice that in spite of >> your continuous and monotonous rhetoric you've yet to convince anyone >> else. >> >> "One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over >> again and expecting a different result." >> >> Are you insane? >> >> -- >> C'est bon >> Soloman > > > +1 > > Most domestic homicides do not involve firearms: Which isn't the point of this discussion, but nice try at distraction. > > Overnight news for example: > https://katv.com/news/local/two-year-old-girl-beaten-to-death-by-man-in- > sevier-county-domestic-violence-case-murder-homicide-first-degree- > battery-murder > > https://local12.com/news/nation-world/killed-girlfriend-oncoming- > traffic-highway-throwing-dragging-forcing-forced-her-boyfriend-man- > interstate-crash-car-crashed-struck-by-crawled-shoulder-side-road-chase- > blood-arrest-murder-murdered > > https://truecrimenews.com/2025/03/05/texas-tarrant-jose-castaneda-evila- > yanes-murder-girlfriend-sentenced/ > > There are multiple examples, every day and everywhere, and firearms are > a rarity among them. > -- Add xx to reply