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From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Ove Interest?
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2025 09:56:56 -0500
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On 3/6/2025 9:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/6/2025 3:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 00:07:01 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/5/2025 11:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:31:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ownership of a firearm is one thing but being readily
>>>>> accessible and ready to fire is another. Under many local
>>>>> ordinances, firearms must be locked, which greatly stymies
>>>>> defense when decisions are final in less than a second.
>>>
>>> Which reminds me of John's personal tale of a real home invasion. That
>>> paragraph may explain (in part) why his gun did him no good at all. Only
>>> the most fearful homeowner would keep his gun on his person just in case
>>> someone burst into the home.
>>
>> True, but having a gun close at hand does not necessarily mean it has
>> to be on your person.
>>
>>>>> Then there's software. Most firearms owners do not get
>>>>> regular range time and so will more probably fumble away
>>>>> decisive time or even shoot themselves than successfully
>>>>> defend under sudden, immediate attack and under a wave of
>>>>> adrenaline.
>>>
>>> Right. And even most target shooting for sport would probably do little
>>> to prevent that fumbling, because it doesn't usually involve super-fast
>>> grabbing the gun out of storage, quickly loading it, then quickly
>>> hitting a target. Practicing skills is a highly specific exercise.
>>
>> Having a gun locked up in storage makes it useless. Having a gun
>> unloaded makes it almost as useless. Best practice is fully loaded,
>> meaning one in the pipe and with safeties off.
>>
>>>>> And then there's negligence and yes, sadly, would-be
>>>>> defenders do shoot relatives and other innocents after
>>>>> hearing a bump in the night.
>>>
>>> And it's not just mistaking innocents by mistake. I'm sure that a much
>>> larger percentage of intra-household shooting victims are shot
>>> deliberately. A thug of a husband gets furious at his wife and blows her
>>> away.
>>
>> Very rare. The majority of male violence to females regard fists and
>> the notorious blunt objects. More likely the female has enough of the
>> male abuser and blows him away. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
>>
>>> Good points in those three paragraphs.
>>>
>>>>> So while I'm generally supportive of firearms for self
>>>>> defense, especially home defense, I recognize this is a
>>>>> varied, complex and unclear area in many aspects.
>>>>
>>>> I came across this study just the other day
>>>> https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
>>>> a total of 420 home killing of which 209 were committed by firearm and
>>>> 211 by other means.
>>>>
>>>> Now, any killing is a terrible thing but one has to view with some
>>>> skepticism someone that ignores the major cause of death to emphasize
>>>> the minor cause.
>>>>
>>>> Can his motives be viewed as impartial, or simply a means of
>>>> emphasizing his own opinions.
>>>
>>> You're dancing away from the question at hand. I said all the data I've
>>> found indicates a gun in the home makes the occupants less safe, and
>>> more likely to be shot by that gun.
>>
>> <LOL> Correlation does not imply causation.
>>
>>> Your source said the same:  "After controlling for these
>>> characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly
>>> and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide
>>> (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4).
>>> Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or
>>> intimate acquaintance.
>>> "Conclusions: ... Rather than confer protection, guns kept in the home
>>> are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family
>>> member or intimate acquaintance."
>>
>> Nonsense, but I believe that illegal drugs kept in the house might by
>> risky.
>>
>>> You don't seem to realize that you've yet again corroborated my
>>> position. You're failing at logic, John.
>>
>> You get to believe whatever you want, but I notice that in spite of
>> your continuous and monotonous rhetoric you've yet to convince anyone
>> else.
>>
>> "One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
>> again and expecting a different result."
>>
>> Are you insane?
>>
>> -- 
>> C'est bon
>> Soloman
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Most domestic homicides do not involve firearms:

Which isn't the point of this discussion, but nice try at distraction.

> 
> Overnight news for example:
> https://katv.com/news/local/two-year-old-girl-beaten-to-death-by-man-in- 
> sevier-county-domestic-violence-case-murder-homicide-first-degree- 
> battery-murder
> 
> https://local12.com/news/nation-world/killed-girlfriend-oncoming- 
> traffic-highway-throwing-dragging-forcing-forced-her-boyfriend-man- 
> interstate-crash-car-crashed-struck-by-crawled-shoulder-side-road-chase- 
> blood-arrest-murder-murdered
> 
> https://truecrimenews.com/2025/03/05/texas-tarrant-jose-castaneda-evila- 
> yanes-murder-girlfriend-sentenced/
> 
> There are multiple examples, every day and everywhere, and firearms are 
> a rarity among them.
> 


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