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From: Ed P <esp@snet.n>
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: Last night was "surf and coop."
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 14:40:18 -0500
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On 3/8/2025 1:46 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2025-03-08 12:38 p.m., Ed P wrote:
>> On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would prefer 
>>> that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do tip but I 
>>> stick to the old standard of 15% for good service and I am fed with 
>>> the pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
>>>
>>>
>> Won't work.  Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
>>
>> Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage 
>> for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of 
>> $2.13.  In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what is done in most of Europe where tax and service are 
> factored into the price. While  menu prices may look to be more but you 
> don't have to shell out for tax and tip on top of that, so what you see 
> is what you pay.
> 
> My most recent trip to Paris was close to 2 years ago. On our first 
> night we had a simple supper at a sidewalk cafe. My very substantial 
> chicken dinner was 15 Euros, about $22 CDN, and that included tax and 
> service and I left a small tip. The next night was closer to the hotel 
> and we had a three course menu meal, appetizer, main plate and dessert 
> for 20 Euros. Throw in a decent bottle of wine for another 20 Euros for 
> a total of 60 Euros about $90... service and tax included.  The food and 
> service were good.
> 
> 
>  > Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you 
> think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
> 
> 
>>
>> The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it. 
>> People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will 
>> be lost.
>>
>> Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage.  Many servers will quit.
>>
>> Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you 
>> think is a fair and decent wage for the server? 
> 
> Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with 
> tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible 
> for paying their employees, not the customers.
> 
>>
>> Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the 
>> tip with others, like food runners.
>>
>> OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
> 
> What they hell. Why not just out then on straight tips, have them do 
> their busing and table prep with the customers and then have the stand 
> there with their hands out for tips.  Or pay them something more than 
> minimum.
> 
So, you decline putting a number on it.  $15?  $25?  Anyone want to say?