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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Every sufficiently competent C programmer knows --- Very Stupid
 Mistake and Liars
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 15:29:17 -0500
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On 3/12/2025 2:16 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 3/11/2025 10:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2025 10:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:37 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:32 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2025 01:22, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If it correctly simulates infinitely many steps, it doesn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>> terminate. Look up "infinite".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But your task is to decide for /any/ program, not just DDD. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> That, as you are so fond of saying, is 'stipulated', and you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get out of it. The whole point of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Entscheidungsproblem is its universality. Ignore that, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you have nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given that his code has HHH(DD) returning 0, 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE WORDS ANYONE THAT DODGES THESE
>>>>>>>>>> WORDS WILL BE TAKEN FOR A LIAR
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its
>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally
>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly
>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *You are simply lying that any input was ever changed*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You did precisely that when you hypothesize different code for HHH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *THIS IS WHAT MY ORIGINAL WORDS MEANT*
>>>>>> HHH is the infinite set of every possible C function
>>>>>> that correctly emulates N steps of its input where
>>>>>> N any finite positive integer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, you're changing the input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>
>>>> It is an infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs having the
>>>> property that DDD[0] ... DDD[N] never halts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words, you're not answering the question that a solution to 
>>> the halting problem is required to answer:
>>>
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>> directly
>>>
>>
>> Yes I am yet you refuse to pay anywhere near close
>> enough attention to see how I already fully addressed this.
>> If you pay 100% perfect attention you might get it.
>>
> 
> False.  (<DDD>,null) maps to 1 as per the above requirements, but your 
> HHH maps (<DDD>,null) to 0, therefore it fails to meet the requirements.

_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

When DDD is emulated by HHH according to the semantics
of the above x86 machine language then DDD cannot possibly
reach past its own machine address 0000217a.

My posthumous reviewers will notice that my current
reviewers were disingenuous to the extent of dishonesty
on this specific point.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer