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From: "Carol" <cshenk@virginia-beach.com>
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: Last night was "surf and coop."
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 22:16:52 -0000 (UTC)
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Jill McQuown wrote:

> On 3/8/2025 11:56 PM, Carol wrote:
> > Ed P wrote:
> > 
> > > On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would
> > > > prefer  that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do
> > > > tip but I stick  to the old standard of 15% for good service
> > > > and I am fed with the  pressure for a minimum 20% just for
> > > > showing up.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > Won't work.  Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall,
> > > works.
> > > 
> > > Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum
> > > wage for service workers if they want more than the federal
> > > mandate of $2.13.  In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular
> > > minimum.
> > > 
> > > The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover
> > > it.  People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some
> > > sales will be lost.
> > > 
> > > Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage.  Many servers will quit.
> > > 
> > > Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
> > > think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
> > > 
> > > Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of
> > > the tip with others, like food runners.
> > > 
> > > OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
> > 
> > Long ago I worked with this.  What most don't know if if it's a
> > chain place (Applebees, Chili's, Denny's etc. including McDonalds
> > and that set), they have to be paid minimum wage.  It's the
> > NON-CHAIN places where you might see the 2.13hr.  Waiters at bars,
> > Bartenders are fair game for it.  Exception Hard Rock Cafe,
> > Hooters, etc are probably big enough to be part of the 7.25 crowd
not the 2.13 tipped wage set.

> > 
> What the heck are you talking about?  Tipped employee minimum wage
> varies by state.  Check it out:

I was talking exactly what the others were talking about Jill.  Minimum
and *tipped minimum* varies by state but can't be lower than Federal.
One says the same but uses the term 'service workers' and seems to be
*tipped minimum and that may be a Canadian term for it?  I don't know
Canadian laws.  Or maybe that was Ed, who mentions FL as 10.98 but
doesnt say for sure that is *tipped* wage.


2.13 is the minimum *Tipped wage* in Federal (so lowest in any state
allowed).  For Non-tipped category, *Minimum Federal wage* is 7.25 so
no state an use less than 7.25.

Catagory one is the overal NON-tipped minimum which Federal is 7.25.
Catagory two (related to our discussion) is *Tipped Minimum* which also
can vary by state but not less than 2.13.

It's 2 catagories, not one.

What I added was something largely not known.  If the company is big
enough, they can't have 'tipped employees' (as in expected to make up
the money in tips and employer cover if they don't.).  No one at
McDonalds, Dennys, Chilis, Applebees etc makes only 2.13 an hour or
some variation applicable to their state. Those bigger places ('chain
operations' like known places in multiple states) may allow for tips to
increase the money the server takes in, but if they don't get a tip,
there is no employer makeup for it because they alrready make
*minimum*, not *Tipped minimum*.

> > The people aren't going to tell you this.  They want you to think
> > they get 2.13hr so you tip heavily in sympathy.
> > 
> WTH?

Ever had someone at Starbucks tell you thay you don't need to tip
because they make (insert whatever at or above mimimum they make, 20$
hr)?  No.  They love getting free money.  I don't blame them but the
USA tipping culture has gotten out of hand.
-I even got hit up at Atlanta International Airport at McDonalds for a
tip by the machine and there was no way to abort it.  I left instead.
 
> > Starbucks is the worst.  They pay well over minimum wage and have
> > good benefits, even ones that help pay for a degree.
> > 
> An employer can choose to pay over minimum wage but they cannot fall
> below the state minimum hourly rate. In a lot of states the minimum
> wage is higher than the Federal rate for both catagories.

Jill. do you understand when tipped rate applies?  

> > I DO leave a good tip if service is good.  I leave more if they
> > actually fall under the 2.13hr (a few local places do like my
> > favorite Chinese place) but most of them pay more than 2.13hr just
> > to get people.
> 
> Do you routinely discuss hourly wages with the people who work at
> restaurants?  How do you know what they're being paid?
> 
> Jill

Obviously NOT Jill.  I don't have to ask, I know how the system works.