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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Every sufficiently competent C programmer knows --- Liar Paradox
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 23:24:54 -0500
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On 3/12/2025 10:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 3/12/25 8:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/12/2025 5:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 3/12/25 11:37 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/12/2025 4:32 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 12.mrt.2025 om 03:39 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:37 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:32 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 10:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2025 01:22, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it correctly simulates infinitely many steps, it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't terminate. Look up "infinite".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But your task is to decide for /any/ program, not just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD. That, as you are so fond of saying, is 'stipulated', 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you can't get out of it. The whole point of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Entscheidungsproblem is its universality. Ignore that, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given that his code has HHH(DD) returning 0, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE WORDS ANYONE THAT DODGES THESE
>>>>>>>>>>>> WORDS WILL BE TAKEN FOR A LIAR
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH never reaches its
>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return" instruction and terminates normally
>>>>>>>>>>>> in any finite or infinite number of correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *You are simply lying that any input was ever changed*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You did precisely that when you hypothesize different code for 
>>>>>>>>> HHH.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *THIS IS WHAT MY ORIGINAL WORDS MEANT*
>>>>>>>> HHH is the infinite set of every possible C function
>>>>>>>> that correctly emulates N steps of its input where
>>>>>>>> N any finite positive integer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words, you're changing the input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs having the
>>>>>> property that DDD[0] ... DDD[N] never halts.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Proving that HHH[0] ... HHH[N} are unable to correctly complete the 
>>>>> simulation. 
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>> {
>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>    return;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>> {
>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>    return;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> In the exact same way that HHH cannot complete the
>>>> simulation of the above functions.
>>>>
>>>> BECAUSE THEY SPECIFY NON-TERMINATING BEHAVIOR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right, so we can not use the correct simulation BY HHH as the 
>>> crireria, but it needs to be just the Correct Simulation, which will 
>>> be the same who-ever does it, so HHH doesn't need to actually do it,
>>>
>>> Sorry, you are just showing how much your logic is based on FRAUD and 
>>> LIES.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to understand that logic based on incorrect premises 
>>> can't prove anything.
>>
>> By this same reasoning we could determine that the Liar Paradox
>> is TRUE because it claims to be ~(TRUE) and it <is> ~(TRUE).
>>
>>
> 
> So, you admit that you logic is bad?
> 

Just the opposite. I detect and reject the bad logic
caused by pathological self-reference of the Liar Paradox
and defining the halting problem as returning a correct
Boolean value for an input that does the opposite of
whatever value is returned.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer