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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Every sufficiently competent C programmer knows --- Semantic
 Property of Finite String
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 09:35:39 -0500
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On 3/14/2025 7:30 AM, dbush wrote:
> On 3/13/2025 9:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/13/2025 4:21 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 13/03/2025 20:48, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 3/13/2025 4:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/13/2025 4:27 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:41:34 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 3/12/2025 7:56 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:41 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOT WHEN IT IS STIPULATED THAT THE BEHAVIOR BEING MEASURED IS
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The direct execution of DDD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is proven to be different than the behavior of DDD emulated by HHH
>>>>>>> according to the semantics of the x86 language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is weird, considering that a simulator should produce the same
>>>>>> behaviour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DECIDERS ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT ON THE SEMANTIC OR SYNTACTIC 
>>>>>>> PROPERTY OF
>>>>>>> THEIR INPUT FINITE STRINGS.
>>>>>> And not if the input called a different simulator that didn't abort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacing the code of HHH with an unconditional simulator and 
>>>>> subsequently running HHH(DD) cannot possibly
>>>>> reach its own final state no matter what HHH
>>>>> does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacing the code of HHH1 with an unconditional simulator and 
>>>>> subsequently running HHH1(DD) does reach its
>>>>> own final state.
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone was not a liar they would say that
>>>>> these are different computations.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only because one changes the code that DD runs and one doesn't
>>>
>>> It hardly matters. Either his emulation faithfully and correctly 
>>> establishes and reports (for EVERY program anyone cares to feed it) 
>>> the actual halting behaviour exhibited by the program it's emulating, 
>>> or it doesn't.
>>>
>>
>> _DDD()
>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>> [00002183] c3         ret
>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>
>> That everyone expects the behavior of the directly
>> executed DDD to be the same as DDD correctly emulated
>> by HHH1 is verified as a factually correct expectation.
> 
> Right, because changing the code of HHH1 doesn't change the input.
> 
>>
>> That everyone expects the behavior of the directly
>> executed DDD to be the same as DDD correctly emulated
>> by HHH is verified as a factually incorrect expectation.
>>
> 
> You only think that because you don't understand that changing the code 
> of HHH changes DDD.  Changing the input is not allowed.
> 
> 
>> It is very common for people to be so well indoctrinated
>> that they reject verified facts out-of-hand without review.
>>
>>> If it doesn't, it doesn't, and it's a lot of fuss over nothing.
>>>
>>> But if it /does/, then we're right back at Turing's proof, because a 
>>> working emulator is just another way of running the code, and is 
>>> therefore superfluous to requirements. It adds nothing to the debate, 
>>> because we can just run the code and get the same answer the emulator 
>>> would provide.
>>>
>>
>> For the first time in the history of mankind it proves
>> that a simulation of a virtual machine according to
>> the semantics of this machine language
>> DOES NOT ALWAYS HAVE THE SAME BEHAVIOR AS THE DIRECT
>> EXECUTION OF THIS SAME MACHINE
> 
> You don't have the same machine.  You just can't see that.
> 
> And what you forget is that we're not asking what HHH is able to 
> simulate.  We're asking what DDD does when it's executed directly.  That 
> HHH attempts to use simulation doesn't change that.
> 
>>
>> PATHOLOGICAL SELF REFERENCE DOES CHANGE SEMANTICS
>> PATHOLOGICAL SELF REFERENCE DOES CHANGE SEMANTICS
>> PATHOLOGICAL SELF REFERENCE DOES CHANGE SEMANTICS
>> PATHOLOGICAL SELF REFERENCE DOES CHANGE SEMANTICS
>>
>> "This sentence is not true"
>> is neither true nor false because of PSR
>>
>> This sentence is not true: "This sentence is not true"
>> The exact same word-for-word sentence
>> IS TRUE IN THIS DIFFERING CONTEXT THAT DOES NOT HAVE PSR.
>>
>>> In other words, the emulator is a canard, a distraction, a cul-de- 
>>> sac, and a complete waste of time. If it happens to work, great! Well 
>>> done that man. But it doesn't affect the HP logic one microscopically 
>>> minuscule millijot.
>>>
>>
>> The emulator proves the actual behavior specified by the
>> INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUT
> 
> And the behavior of the input is specified by the specification:
> 
> 
> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X 
> described as <X> with input Y:
> 
> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
> following mapping:
> 
> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly
> 
> 
>>
>> That people disagree with the semantics of the x86 language
>> proves how deeply indoctrinated they are.
>>
> 
> The semantics of the x86 language says that when the input to HHH(DDD) 
> is actually run on an actual x86 processor that it will halt.
> 


void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}

DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach
its own "return" instruction in any finite number of
correctly simulated steps.

That you are clueless about the semantics of something
as simple as a tiny C function proves that you are not
competent to review my work.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer