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From: Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Job Offer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:03:56 +0100
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Am 18.03.2025 um 15:34 schrieb Roger Merriman:
> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 19:12:18 +0700, John B.
>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:00:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:22:33 -0400,
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:52:40 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 04:05:22 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I never said I though I was loved by God.On Tue, 18 Mar 2025
>>>>>>>> 08:52:46 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 12:06:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 12:03 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 11:35:21 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 10:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 4:28 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Education isn't an accomplishment, it's a tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's both. Education can't be simply given to a person.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be greatly helped by a competent teacher, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person still has to work to achieve it. Doing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully is an accomplishment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's odd is that this discussion group has a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denizens who think they can accomplish just as much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without that tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In modern parlance, they actually are the tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's binary or Manichean.  That is, both or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all can be true in different examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Examples abound of both autodidacts with gaping holes in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their repertoire (me) and others who accomplished much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the same background (Franklin).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Benjamin Franklin was brilliant. It's been pointed out that
>>>>>>>>>>>> his science accomplishments alone would have won Nobel
>>>>>>>>>>>> Prizes had they existed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But any modern American is a fool if he says "Franklin was
>>>>>>>>>>>> great and he learned it all himself. So I don't need no
>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right, that would be a logical leap in most cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Still and all, situations, capacity, attitude and resources
>>>>>>>>>>> vary so much that a certificate or a degree may not hold a
>>>>>>>>>>> good return for everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Again this is the difference between education broadly and
>>>>>>>>>>> certification specifically.  No one wants a heart surgeon or
>>>>>>>>>>> structural engineer who sorta gets the general idea in his
>>>>>>>>>>> field:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-BpW_cM7iYc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I very clearly remember the moment when I reached awareness. It was in
>>>>>>>>>> fourth grade and I was assigned a couple of pages of long division,
>>>>>>>>>> which I was ordered to copy out of the book and "<LOL> solve....  I
>>>>>>>>>> did a couple and then it hit me. I know how to do this and doing it
>>>>>>>>>> over and over serves no purpose. That's when I started ignoring the
>>>>>>>>>> assignments and going ahead in the book on my own. I did very little
>>>>>>>>>> homework from that day on, but I did well on all the tests. The
>>>>>>>>>> ignorant teachers insisted on basing too much of the grades on the
>>>>>>>>>> "daily work, instead of simply how much was learned. I think it hurt
>>>>>>>>>> their feelings that I ignored their instructions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I know, I learned by reading and experimenting. Yeah, I
>>>>>>>>>> know that wouldn't work for doctors, nurses, and dentists, but those
>>>>>>>>>> kinds of professions are too restrictive for me anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good point, and you understand the difference. See also
>>>>>>>>> airplane mechanics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Most of what I know, I learned by reading and experimenting."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Airplane mechanic?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the pilots don't complain? ():-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never worked on an airplane, but I wrenched on cars and trucks and
>>>>>>> boats and tractors and snowmobiles and motorcycles and bicycles. I
>>>>>>> didn't need a school teacher for any of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am genuine,, Federal licensed, Airplane Mechanic (:-)  Air plane
>>>>>> mechanizing  is more a  matter of doing work correctly and maybe more
>>>>>> important not doing things wrong. For example there are limits on how
>>>>>> many and what sort welds can be made in a steel tube aircraft
>>>>>> fuselage. Or the correct process to weld an internal combustion engine
>>>>>> exhaust and so on and everything that might come loose has to be
>>>>>> secures with safety wire, or other safety system to avoid things
>>>>>> falling off in flight (Upsets the pilots greatly when parts start
>>>>>> falling off in flight  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know a bit about piston engines in general, but there are many
>>>>> variations and many I have not worked on.
>>>>
>>>> I find motorcycle engines very interesting, there are parallel, boxer,
>>>> and offset V configurations and many different versions of each. My
>>>> Virago VTwin used a single crank pin like the Harley's but fired on
>>>> different rotations while the Harley's fired both on the same
>>>> rotation. They seemed very proud of their engines' unique sound and
>>>> pretend not to notice the resulting vibration. The early Norton vtwins
>>>> had offset crank pins to go with the offset V cylinders. They don't
>>>> make stuff like they used to make stuff.
>>>
>>> Yup the old Harleys had no Distributor and fired both spark plugs at
>>> the same time - one on the exhaust stroke and one on the power stroke.
>>
>> To clarify. I believe the early Harleys fired twice on each cylinder
>> on each sequence. Each cycilnder got one firing at the correct time
>> and one firing on each cylinder either before or after the correct
>> time.

> How does that work then? If the first ignition has ignited all or at least
> most of the fuel? Or did it introduce a 2nd batch of fuel?

A 4-stroke engine needs its ignition at the end of stroke 1 (cylinder 
compressed and full of fuel-air mix).  At the end of stroke 3 (cylinder 
at minimum volume but empty from pushing out the exhaust) there is 
nothing to ignite so an igntion at this point of time have not use but 
also no harm.

So with two cylinders offest by 180 degrees (boxer engine), you can skip 
the distributor.