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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Job Offer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 12:22:45 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/18/2025 11:35 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 3/18/2025 12:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/18/2025 10:32 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> accredited engineering programOn 18 Mar 2025 14:34:15 
>>>> GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 
>>>>>> 19:12:18 +0700, John B.
>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:00:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 
>>>>>>>> 07:22:33 -0400,
>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:52:40 +0700, John B. 
>>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 04:05:22 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I never said I though I was loved by God.On Tue, 
>>>>>>>>>>> 18 Mar 2025
>>>>>>>>>>> 08:52:46 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 12:06:55 -0500, AMuzi 
>>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 12:03 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 11:35:21 -0500, AMuzi 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 10:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 4:28 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Education isn't an accomplishment, it's a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's both. Education can't be simply given 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a person.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be greatly helped by a competent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person still has to work to achieve it. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully is an accomplishment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's odd is that this discussion group 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denizens who think they can accomplish just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without that tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In modern parlance, they actually are the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's binary or Manichean.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is, both or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all can be true in different examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Examples abound of both autodidacts with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaping holes in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their repertoire (me) and others who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accomplished much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the same background (Franklin).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benjamin Franklin was brilliant. It's been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pointed out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his science accomplishments alone would have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won Nobel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prizes had they existed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But any modern American is a fool if he says 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Franklin was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great and he learned it all himself. So I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't need no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, that would be a logical leap in most 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still and all, situations, capacity, attitude 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and resources
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vary so much that a certificate or a degree 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may not hold a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good return for everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again this is the difference between education 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broadly and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certification specifically.  No one wants a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart surgeon or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structural engineer who sorta gets the general 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea in his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-BpW_cM7iYc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very clearly remember the moment when I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reached awareness. It was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth grade and I was assigned a couple of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages of long division,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I was ordered to copy out of the book and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "<LOL> solve....  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did a couple and then it hit me. I know how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do this and doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over serves no purpose. That's when I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> started ignoring the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignments and going ahead in the book on my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own. I did very little
>>>>>>>>>>>>> homework from that day on, but I did well on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the tests. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant teachers insisted on basing too much 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the grades on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "daily work, instead of simply how much was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learned. I think it hurt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their feelings that I ignored their instructions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I know, I learned by reading and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experimenting. Yeah, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know that wouldn't work for doctors, nurses, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and dentists, but those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds of professions are too restrictive for me 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point, and you understand the difference. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> See also
>>>>>>>>>>>> airplane mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Most of what I know, I learned by reading and 
>>>>>>>>>>> experimenting."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Airplane mechanic?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the pilots don't complain? ():-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I never worked on an airplane, but I wrenched on 
>>>>>>>>>> cars and trucks and
>>>>>>>>>> boats and tractors and snowmobiles and motorcycles 
>>>>>>>>>> and bicycles. I
>>>>>>>>>> didn't need a school teacher for any of that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am genuine,, Federal licensed, Airplane Mechanic 
>>>>>>>>> (:-)  Air plane
>>>>>>>>> mechanizing  is more a  matter of doing work 
>>>>>>>>> correctly and maybe more
>>>>>>>>> important not doing things wrong. For example there 
>>>>>>>>> are limits on how
>>>>>>>>> many and what sort welds can be made in a steel 
>>>>>>>>> tube aircraft
>>>>>>>>> fuselage. Or the correct process to weld an 
>>>>>>>>> internal combustion engine
>>>>>>>>> exhaust and so on and everything that might come 
>>>>>>>>> loose has to be
>>>>>>>>> secures with safety wire, or other safety system to 
>>>>>>>>> avoid things
>>>>>>>>> falling off in flight (Upsets the pilots greatly 
>>>>>>>>> when parts start
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