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From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: When is fat too fat?
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 18:20:28 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 3/22/2025 2:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:32:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/22/2025 12:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 11:40:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/21/2025 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> (you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long
>>>>>> and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The above URL ends with too much tracking information.  I trimmed it
>>>>> off.  Now, it works:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols
>>>>> wrapped around the URL.  If you don't want the URL mangled by a
>>>>> browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still hitting a paywall. I wonder if I've got some offending cookie
>>>> preventing my access.
>>>>
>>>> I'll deal with it later. I'm scheduled up today.
>>>
>>> I think I know what's happening.  When you first replied to the
>>> original message, your Mozilla Thunderbird browser took the rather
>>> long URL and word wrapped it into 3 lines of gibberish.  When you
>>> retried, the browser is reading the original web server response
>>> instead to getting a fresh copy.  You can either flush the web cache
>>> or force a page refresh in your browser.  I don't know which browser
>>> you're using so I can't offer a specific procedure.  This covers most
>>> browsers:
>>>
>>> "How to hard refresh your browser and clear your cache"
>>> <https://fabricdigital.co.nz/blog/how-to-hard-refresh-your-browser-and-clear-cache>
>>>
>>> Note that you want want to ONLY flush the web page cache.  If your web
>>> browser also offers to also clear history, cookies, site setting,
>>> saved info, saved form info, etc, uncheck everything EXCEPT the web
>>> cache and cached files.  Some browsers become confused if the web
>>> cache grows too large.
> 
>> Aside from our comments, I think Mr Slocumb had it with his
>> tinyurl suggestion.
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/5n7sapye
>>
>> or, without subscriber ID data (I did not get a paywall):
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/mu32edpb
> 
> Sigh.  Now, all the aforementioned URL and short links produce the
> paywall message because I had tried to view the page more than 5
> times.  From the "Join now" box:
> "*Read 5 free articles per month without a subscription"
> 
> I can usually eliminate that by removing the cyclingnews.com cookies
> and resetting the counter.  However, that's not working for me in
> Firefox.  So, I try a different method:
> Settings -> Cookies and Site Data -> Manage Data -> and type
> "cyclingnews.com" into the search box.  It shows 21 cookies belonging
> to cyclingnews.com.  I punch "Remove all Shown -> Save Changes" and it
> doesn't work.
> 
> So, I switched to Chrome and again deleted any cyclingnews.com
> cookies.  The paywall appears again.
> 
> I'll play some more later.
You can relax! I was finally able to access it. Deleting cookies from 
Firefox, at least in the simplest ways, did not help; but putting the 
URL into Microsoft Edge (which I almost never use) worked well. However, 
it did not let me access a linked article on aero testing. I hit the 
paywall there.

Overall, I thought it was a very good article. It was directed at 
competitive riders, so less competitive types have other priorities, but 
the main takeaway seems to be that there's essentially no practical 
detriment to using the widest tire one's frame can accommodate. That's 
assuming different widths are of similar construction - i.e. not 
super-thick tread utility tires. The widest tires may be very slightly 
slower on smooth pavement, but will be much, much more efficient on 
super-rough surfaces like cobblestones. It therefore seems wider tires 
will probably be better than my 28s in areas like mine where rough roads 
and patched potholes are quite common. I'd long thought that would be 
the case.

Quibbles and details:  I wish they had specified the air pressure used, 
better than "the recommended tyre pressure suggested by SRAM's tyre 
pressure calculator." Number, please?

I wasn't familiar with their ergometer method of measuring rolling 
resistance. It sounds good, especially since they do have a human being 
whose flesh will be absorbing vibrational energy. That flesh is a big 
energy sink, seldom recognized.

"But for now, the only type of drop bar bike that can currently run a 
40mm road tyre safely is an endurance bike or a gravel bike." Nope! It 
looks to me like my touring bike could fit 50 mm in front, and about 45 
mm in the rear. My fenders may limit that somewhat, but I feel very 
confident I can run 37 mm.

And I like that the authors are lobbying for road frames with more 
clearance. I've been saying the same thing here for year.

"Wider tyres are heavier - This is true, but I'd argue it doesn't 
matter."  Agreed, for the weight differences described. If they had 
expressed the tire weigh differences as percentages of bike+rider 
weight, that would have been even more clear.

The bit about faster speeds being better on cobbles (if one has the 
power to do that) has always made sense to me. As with a single pothole, 
I think most of the roughness one feels is due to dropping into the 
spaces between cobbles. At higher speeds the tire drops less.

BTW, around here a much more common, analogous surface is a road that's 
been "scarfed" - that is, had the old pavement ground away prior to 
repaving. On long tours, I've sometimes had to deal with that 
unpleasantness for miles.

Again, very good article. Thanks to Zen for calling attention to it.


-- 
- Frank Krygowski