Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Tww
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2023 06:03:22 GMT
Message-ID: <ui4mra$1312n$1@solani.org>
References: <uhkpos$r75m$1@solani.org> <lvtsjihq7q40l12e41r5vdppfvblsa4sis@4ax.com> <uhmjt8$2vis$1@dont-email.me> <mnltjipuvjokbba54j60t12o4q8tj7s7nn@4ax.com> <uhnqdn$ckoa$1@dont-email.me> <egkvjih16kc0bu4crm5vk6g1cu32s1rge2@4ax.com> <uhpu66$to55$2@solani.org> <6c73kiprdslaj899vv92sm26n58r73s2au@4ax.com> <uhstf1$v6mh$2@solani.org> <0cp4ki1ui592aul2674qhmk85de16s8c3a@4ax.com> <uhv7rk$10b2l$1@solani.org> <snc7ki56n28ua94ck0hg20906kg0oejvi4@4ax.com> <ui201s$11m9j$1@solani.org> <1l0akipp3mla2hoqh3i04vd9njp41onrat@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; ISO-8859-15
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 06:03:22 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: solani.org;
	logging-data="1147991"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
User-Agent: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (Linux-5.15.32-v7l+)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZUHzSfeUQTejV3/VFxGnjS+p+r8=
X-User-ID: eJwFwYEBwCAIA7CXQGml5yCO/09Ygk1nnyAYGEw7dGs5/ZtLSW2f5I+IcEvjC9VSdK5Kn5TNZtXwnKhB/Tm+FOg=
X-Newsreader-location: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (c) 'LIGHTSPEED' off line news reader for the Linux platform
 NewsFleX homepage: http://www.panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/ and ftp download ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/linux/system/news/readers/ 
Bytes: 7311
Lines: 137

On a sunny day (Fri, 03 Nov 2023 07:32:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <1l0akipp3mla2hoqh3i04vd9njp41onrat@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 05:22:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Thu, 02 Nov 2023 07:39:42 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <snc7ki56n28ua94ck0hg20906kg0oejvi4@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Nov 2023 04:16:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Wed, 01 Nov 2023 07:56:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <0cp4ki1ui592aul2674qhmk85de16s8c3a@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Here's a paper about the NIF timing system.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C011127/TUAP069.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>The biggest error is the prop delay tempco of the fiberoptics, around
>>>>>15 PPM/degC. The facility is BIG.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't expect that laser fusion will ever be a practical power
>>>>>source. NIF is actually mainly for weapons research.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for the links.
>>>>
>>>>Billions of dollars it did cost I read...
>>>>And the management knew it was crap...
>>>
>>>It's expensive but it works for the untended uses. It cost a fraction
>>>of ISS and some other things I could name.
>>>
>>>>Example of the US Military Industrial Complex.
>>>
>>>One use is to keep a number of researchers busy understanding the
>>>dynamics of nuclear weapons, refining simulations, now that we can't
>>>test them any more.
>>>
>>>One thing I have noticed is that the big-science and space programs
>>>seem to deliberately seek out small businesses as suppliers, and take
>>>a chance on them.
>>
>>Sure, some new ideas can come in handy.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>As to fusion power, I am not even sure ITER will work this time...
>>>>Probably needs to be rebuild a little bigger :-)
>>>>
>>>>Politics, job creation...
>>>
>>>Inefficient, but has at least some upside. I could name more expensive
>>>programs that are flat destructive.
>>
>>Fighting climate change :-) ?
>>
>>
>>As to timing, and I remember we discussed this before many years ago,
>>in the sixties in the TV studio where I had to keep things running, it was all about timing.
>>Mostly tubes in that old studio, some transistors.
>>When a video link from a remote location was used
>>it needed to be precisely in sync with the studio so they could cross-fade.
>>So you have a complex in time signal, vertical interval, horizontal sync, color burst and for color 4.43 MHz here.
>>To get things in sync we send carrier via one of the FM radio stations back to the remote location
>>that steered their clock generator until both frame and horizontal sync were aligned at out place.
>>Then we could cross-fade.
>>As you likely need sync at only one point, where the laser beams hit, one could use a low power laser and a detector
>>and use a complex signal that could be compared to adjust any remote electronics so the pulses at the 'blast'
>>place would be guaranteed to be in sync.
>>Fifties, sixties..
>>Not been there since it all went digital, now it is easy to store and delay one of more frames digitally...
>>In the sixties we went color and look up Ampex 'amtec' and 'colortec', basically variable delay lines,
>>the first to adjust the horizontal sync and the second to adjust the color carrier phase for signals coming from video tape
>>recorders.
>>There were many of those and ALL needed to be in sync to nano seconds (a few degrees of the 4.43MHz carrier) at the control
>>panel so they could cross fade
>>and that sync, for PAL takes several frames as it flips phase every frame,
>>For 2 degrees color error at 4.43 MHz time error is  (1 / 4.43e6) / 180 = 1.25408e-09 say about 1.3 nS from any remote location
>>/ video source (tape recorder for example).
>>Even more so for the US NTSC system (short for Never Twice The Same Color as the joke goes), PAL did compensate for small phase
>>/ color differences using a delay line.)
>>sixties.....
>>Anyways such a remote steering system compensates for any path delays dynamically and has proved itself.
>>
>>
>>
>
>There is a pretty little town north of I80 in eastern California
>called Grass Valley. It was the place where the Grass Valley Group
>started and has become a mini-Silicon Valley.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Valley,_California

Seems it can get very hot there, litte rain also in summer.
We just had a severe storm, and it has been raining for days.. Glad my satellite dish is still aligned.


>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Valley_(company)
>
>I think they pioneered digital video storage and resyncing.

Things move fast in that field, lots is possible with ever more powerful electronics.

When I left TV in 1976 or so we had equipment from Fernseh Gmbh: 
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernseh
and Ampex., also color cameras from Philips (plumbican based)..
Ampex quadruplex video tape recorders did cost millions...
Been to Ampex for traning a few times.

Now with digital electronics things can be much smaller and cheaper, solid state camera sensors.
Anybody can start a TV studio with little money.

Youtube an example, some channels have millions of viewers..


>It's appealing, high technology in a small town the Sierra foothills.

It's a moving target, very interesting.

I am into music now, playing the keyboard...
Select trumpet, play 'Moon river' 
in the sixties I had a real trumpet, keyboards is different..

Thinking about making a big OLED or e-ink paper touch display for the notes.


>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> 
>