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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 17:47:58 -0500
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On 3/23/2025 4:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 3/23/25 1:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/23/2025 6:07 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 3/22/25 11:52 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/2025 9:53 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/25 2:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/22/2025 12:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/22/25 1:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2025 11:37 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Sat, 22 Mar 2025 08:43:03 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>     HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>> There is no program DDD in the above code.
>>>>>>>>> There is also no Infinite_Recursion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since no Turing machine M can ever compute the mapping from 
>>>>>>>>>> the behavior
>>>>>>>>>> of any directly executed TM2 referring to the behavior of the 
>>>>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>> executed DDD has always been incorrect. Halt Deciders always 
>>>>>>>>>> report on
>>>>>>>>>> the behavior that their input finite string specifies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please explain what behaviour the description of a TM "specifies",
>>>>>>>>> and which TM the input describes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Bill sang a song" describes what Bill did.
>>>>>>>> A tape recording of Bill singing that same
>>>>>>>> song completely specifies what Bill did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what a UTM does with this input completely specifies its 
>>>>>>> behavior,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In every case that does not involve pathological self- 
>>>>>>>>>> reference the
>>>>>>>>>> behavior that the finite string specifies is coincidentally 
>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>> behavior as the direct execution of the corresponding machine. 
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> actual measure, however, has always been the behavior that the 
>>>>>>>>>> finite
>>>>>>>>>> string input specifies.
>>>>>>>>> ...which is the direct execution. Not much of a coincidence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _III()
>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push III
>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call EEE(III)
>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When-so-ever any correct emulator EEE correctly emulates
>>>>>>>> a finite number of steps of an input III that calls this
>>>>>>>> same emulator to emulate itself the behavior of the direct
>>>>>>>> execution of III will not be the same as the behavior of
>>>>>>>> the emulated III.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Becuase a finite emulation that stop before the end is not a 
>>>>>>> correct emulation 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words you keep dishonestly trying to get away with
>>>>>> disagreeing with the law of identity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When N steps are III are correctly emulated by EEE
>>>>>> then N steps are III are correctly emulated by EEE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which isn't the same as the CORRECT emulation that shows if the 
>>>>> program being emulated will halt/.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There exists no Natural Number N number of steps of III
>>>>>> correctly emulated by EEE where III reaches its
>>>>>> own "ret" instruction and terminates normally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because
>>>>
>>>> In other words you agree that the recursive emulation
>>>> of a single finite string of x86 machine code single
>>>> machine address [00002172] cannot possibly reach its
>>>> own machine address [00002183]when emulated by emulator
>>>> EEE according to the semantics of the x86 language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> But it isn't a single finite string of x86 machince code, 
>>
>> As a matter of verified fact it is a single finite
>> string of machine code at a fixed offset in the
>> Halt7.obj file.
> 
> Nope, because DEFINTIONALLY, to correctly emulate it, you need ALL of it 
> (at least all seen by the emulator) and thus you can't change the parts 
> seen and still be talking about the same input.
> 
> Your claim just shows you are a patholgical liar.
> 
> You can not "correctly emulate" the code of just the function, you need 
> the rest of the code, which mean you can't do the variations you talk 
> about.
> 

x86utm operates on a compiled object file that
is stored in a single location of global memory.

_III()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push III
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call EEE(III)
[0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

There are no freaking variations merely III repeating
its first four instructions a finite number of times.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer