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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by EEE --- Correct Emulation Defined ---
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 13:36:44 -0400
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On 3/24/2025 12:46 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/24/2025 10:52 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:05:30 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 3/24/2025 6:23 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 3/23/25 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/23/2025 6:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/23/25 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/23/2025 4:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/23/25 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/2025 6:08 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/25 11:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2025 9:53 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/25 2:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2025 12:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/25 10:52 AM, olcott wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When finite integer N instructions of the above x86 machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language DD are emulated by each x86 emulator EEE[N] at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine address [000015c3] according to the semantics of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x86 language no DD ever reaches its own "ret" instruction at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine address [00002155] and terminates normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your can't emulate the above code for N > 4, as you get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undefine memory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have already addressed this objection dozens of times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No you haven't. You have given several different LIES about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I have pointed out, if you don't include Halt7.c as part of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the definition, then you can't do it as you are looking at
>>>>>>>>>>>> undefined memory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your lack of technical competence is showing.
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) We are talking about a hypothetical infinite set of pure x86
>>>>>>>>>>> emulators that have no decider code.
>>>>>>>>>>> (2) The memory space of x86 machine code is not in the C source
>>>>>>>>>>> file, it is in the object file.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then your "input" isn't the C source files, but the memory, and
>>>>>>>>>> ALL of it, and thus in your (1), each member of the set got a
>>>>>>>>>> different input (as reference memory changed) and none of those
>>>>>>>>>> apply to your case with HHH.
>>>>>>>>>> You just continue to prove that you don't understand the meaning
>>>>>>>>>> of the terms you are using, or you are intentionally hiding your
>>>>>>>>>> fradulant change of meaning of those terms.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Command line arguments:
>>>>>>>>> x86utm Halt7.obj > Halt7out.txt
>>>>>>>>> All of the x86 functions remain at their same fixed offset from
>>>>>>>>> the beginning of Halt7.obj
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So?
>>>>>>>> You still need to make the decision, is Halt7.c / Halt7.obj part of
>>>>>>>> the INPUT to the decider, and thus either you can't change the code
>>>>>>>> in it, or you need to consider each version a different input, or
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words an infinite set of pure x86 emulators with each one
>>>>>>> stored at machine address 000015d2 that can be called from the above
>>>>>>> fixed finite string of machine code IS UTTERLY BEYOND ANYTHING THAT
>>>>>>> YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
>>>>>>> I don't buy it. You are  neither that stupid nor that ignorant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can't have two different programs in one memory location at the
>>>>>> same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>> CUT-AND-PASTE FAILED
>>>>> I will dumb it down for you.
>>>>> Try to come up with one x86 emulator EEE at machine address 000015d2
>>>>> that emulates III according to the semantics of the x86 language and
>>>>> this emulated III reaches its own machine address 00002183.
>>>>>
>>>> No, STRAWMAN ERROR. You are just having a logic failure.
>>>> No, you are showing yourself to be dumb.
>>>> You can't redefine what "Correct Emulation" means without loosing the
>>>> ability to use it to answer the problem, as we can only look as
>>>> emulations instead of the original machine BECAUSE the are defined to
>>>> be the same.
>>>> The big problem with your example is that the fact that there doesn't
>>>> exist an EEE that can correct emulate this input to it final state, is
>>>> that all this proves is that this sort of emulator can never "prove"
>>>> that this sort of input is halting.
>>>>
>>> It only takes III calling EEE twice in sequence with no conditional
>>> branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a to prove that III
>>> specifies not haling behavior.
>> But there is a conditional branch. Or does the simulator abort (or not)
>> unconditionally?
>>
> 
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a
> 

Invalid criteria, as branch instructions must be checked in the *entire* 
input, i.e. the machine code of III, the machine code of EEE, and the 
machine code of everything EEE calls down to the OS level.