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From: Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject: Re: Windows-on-ARM Laptop Is A ?Frequently-Returned Item? On Amazon
Date: 24 Mar 2025 19:08:46 GMT
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CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-24 2:41 p.m., Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 3/24/2025 1:19 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> >>> On 2025-03-24 12:58 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 03:30:50 -0400, Paul wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> And, there is competition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/ryzen-ai-300-performance-review-
> >>>> impressive-cpus-even-if-you-dont-care-about-ai/
> >>>>
> >>>> For $1600 it is more than competitive with similarly priced ARM laptops
> >>>> that might be able to run a full range of software someday. The claimed
> >>>> 'up to 18 hours' of battery life reduces the major ARM selling point.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm glad to see I'm not alone. I have an Acer laptop with a Ryzen 7 that
> >>>> has a silvery finish and white backlight that had me asking 'what were
> >>>> they thinking?'.
> >>>
> >>> The one thing those reviews never mention is that by using an AMD
> >>> CPU, you're going to be facing fTPM stuttering because none of those
> >>> computers come with a discrete TPM chip. For most, it's little more
> >>> than a nuisance, but it's one that you can only avoid by using Linux
> >>> going forward.
> >>
> >> IDK. I have a spare computer, with a Zen3 in it, and no stutter to be seen.
> >> Presumably this is with the Secure Boot enabled ? I have another Zen3,
> >> which is the machine reserved for Secure Boot testing, it has no TPM
> >> and uses the AMD fTPM, and no stutter there either. It has booted Linux
> >> Secure Boots and Windows Secure Boots, as part of testing a while ago.
> >>
> >> Both machines, the BIOS version is the most recent. Both got flashed up.
> >>
> >> The difference with laptops, is the BIOS support may not be as generous.
> > 
> >    AFAIC, this 'AMD stuttering' issue is old and fixed 'news'.
> > 
> >    See the January thread 'This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS --
> > If Your Time Is Worth Nothing' in these groups.
> > 
> >    See Andrzej Matuch's post [1] in that thread and my and his responses.
> > 
> >    As mentioned in my last response [2], in my case there was a BIOS
> > firmware update.
> > 
> > [1] Message-ID: <z0ldP.24349$DPp5.18068@fx01.iad>
> > [2] Message-ID: <vl92ie.qp8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
> 
> Except that it's not fixed. Some manufacturers might have provided a 
> BIOS to fix the issue, but most have yet to do so on the laptop side. My 
> model computer, the Zephyrus GA401QM, hasn't had a BIOS update since 
> 2023. Everyone expected that the 415 update would fix the issue since it 
> was repeatedly mentioned by users, but ASUS never bothered to fix it. 
> The most likely reason is because they can't.

  In the previous thread, Andrzej references
<https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-acknowledges-ftpm-stuttering-issues-promises-a-bios-fix-in-may>

  From that, I understand that AMD supplies the fix to the manufacturers,
which of course have to integrate it in their firmware. If those
manufacturers - in your case ASUS - fail to do so, that's hardly AMD's
fault. That's the risk of using fTPM, instead of a real TPM.

  As I said, my system was fixed and - as I mentioned in the other
thread - that is a (2022) (HP) *laptop*.