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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 20:12:33 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/25/2025 7:58 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:49:32 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/2025 6:19 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 11:11 schrieb John B.:
>>>> On 25 Mar 2025 08:02:38 GMT, Roger Merriman
>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/24/2025 6:02 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like to wear helmet for extra protection against a
>>>>>>> fall. I do agree
>>>>>>> that for me even running with a helmet would be good
>>>>>>> since I have no
>>>>>>> balance to run anymore. However, Frank is I think in
>>>>>>> the minority about
>>>>>>> helmets...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, that's not true. In the current echo chamber of
>>>>>> avid sport
>>>>>> cyclists I am a minority. But very I'm comfortable with
>>>>>> not following
>>>>>> most of the group's trends. I don't use clipless pedals,
>>>>>> I don't use
>>>>>> brifters or disk brakes, I don't ride in jerseys that
>>>>>> advertise my
>>>>>> favorite products or my favorite racing team, I don't
>>>>>> use aerodynamic
>>>>>> sunglasses, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But in the total population of world cyclists, it's the
>>>>>> helmet wearers
>>>>>> who are a definite minority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... and while he may have data to support it sometimes
>>>>>>> we humans
>>>>>>> overlook data. I rely sometimes only on intuition and
>>>>>>> what I think might
>>>>>>> be good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a common human trait. It leads to lots of bad
>>>>>> decisions, but it's
>>>>>> common. It's usually wiser to pay attention to good
>>>>>> data, when it's
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really don't understand the length's Frank goes to dis
>>>>>>> helmets but maybe I am simply taking it more than it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you check, you'll see I never initiate helmet
>>>>>> debates. But when
>>>>>> someone else - um, like you, Mark! - starts stating or
>>>>>> implying that
>>>>>> helmets have great benefit, and/or states or implies
>>>>>> that bicycling is a
>>>>>> serious risk for brain injury, I do point out that those
>>>>>> notions are false.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source of serious
>>>>>> traumatic brain
>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis, bicycling's
>>>>>> contribution to TBI
>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most "causes" charts.
>>>>>> Bicycling causes
>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far fewer than
>>>>>> pedestrian travel, and
>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And historic data over
>>>>>> the years shows
>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are not preventing
>>>>>> either fatalities
>>>>>> or concussions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Data on request - but it's been posted or linked
>>>>>> countless times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Helmets for cycle safety are distraction to use one of UK
>>>>> bike
>>>>> personalities/transport experts aka Chris Boardman.
>>>>>
>>>>> With cycling the danger and risk is almost entirely
>>>>> introduced by
>>>>> motorists, which should be the focus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Helmet “debates” as ever seem to go nowhere as folks have
>>>>> such intrenched
>>>>> positions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> I've told this story before but once again.
>>>>
>>>> When I was working around oil well drilling rigs the word
>>>> came down
>>>> from the Drilling Company -  "When you come back from
>>>> break be sure
>>>> you are wearing a "Hard Hat"(i.e. helmet) or don't bother
>>>> to come
>>>> back". And you know? Everybody came back with a hard hat
>>>> and there was
>>>> never a mention,  good, bad or indifferent, whether people
>>>> wanted to
>>>> were a helmet, or not, or any of the other  arguments I
>>>> hear in
>>>> bicycle circles.
>>>
>>> How many people get paid to go bicycling? Most people cycle
>>> voluntarily, or stop cycling voluntarily.
>>>
>>> What is the cost to society if people "don't bother to come
>>> back" (as hapened in Australia)?
>>>
>>> Why did the "don't bother to come back unless you wear a
>>> seat belt" not work in the USA?
>>>
>>
>> In a perfect world, I would probably wear a seat belt when
>> driving. But since the State made it mandatory, which
>> naturally engenders defiance,  I just restrict myself to
>> exempt autos and drive without.
> 
> 
> (:-) do we assume that you also ignore state laws against, oh say,
> theft and taxes?
>   

I'm morally aligned with the statues on theft and resigned 
to taxes.

But the seatbelt laws are well outside the proper realm of 
the government.

As mentioned here recently, we either have a government of 
limited enumerated powers or we do not.


-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971