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From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 06:50:45 -0400
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On 3/25/2025 9:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/25/2025 11:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 3/25/2025 10:12 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/25/2025 7:52 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As I've said many times before, I haven't been the U.S. for many 
>>>> years ...
>>>
>>> Perhaps you should come visit to refresh your knowledge.
>>>
>>>> But do people in other parts of the world avoid playing baseball or in
>>>> an English "colony", Cricket, because one must wear a helmet, or U.S.
>>>> football. or riding to the hounds or all the various activities that
>>>> require  a helmet".
>>>
>>> John, I live two blocks from a Village football field - the old high 
>>> school field - and an adjacent flat grassy field. Both are used by 
>>> young guys and kids for a variety of "pick up" sports, including 
>>> touch football.
>>>
>>> Guys playing touch football do not wear helmets. There is no mandate, 
>>> and apparently the guys judge that the risk of serious head injury is 
>>> low. I played touch football on an intramural team in college, and 
>>> none of us wore helmets.
>>>
>>> Bicyclists volunteer to wear helmets mostly because of dishonest fear 
>>> mongering that convinces them that risk of brain injury is huge, far 
>>> worse than other normal activities. Here, I post data showing that's 
>>> false.
>>
>> There may not be any greater risk than any other activity, but that 
>> doesn't mean that wearing a helmet won't protect you when your head 
>> hits the asphalt.
> 
> Which is also true when running (as Mark does), when walking (I've had 
> friends seriously injured while walking on concrete sidewalks) and when 
> doing other things with non-zero risk of brain injury.

so, because people don't wear walking helmets, they shouldn't wear 
cycling helmets....got it.

> 
>> I'm a helmet wearer. I've always counseled people riding on public 
>> roadways or riding for performance to wear helmets. For going on a 
>> casual, low-risk ride on a smooth recreational rail trail, not much of 
>> an issue and I've even gone out for such rides without one (as 
>> recently as our trip to Aruba last year). But any time I'm going out 
>> on the road or any ride at a 'fitness' level or higher, I always wear 
>> one.
> 
> Of course you do. And you wear special shorts, shoes, jerseys, gloves, 
> jackets and all the rest. I'm not trying to talk you out of any of that 
> kit.
> 
> But understand, until about 1980, "fitness" and competitive cyclists 
> wore all that stuff - but no helmets. It wasn't until the false 
> propaganda about unusual brain injury risk appeared that the foam hat 
> became part of the costume.

And you're ignoring "All of which would have required trips to the ER 
for stitches. For that reason alone it's worth it to me to wear one", 
for which there is scant data from the 1980s.

> 
> Did all those prior avid cyclists somehow not notice that their buddies 
> were getting brain injured? Nope, it was never a sizeable problem. Now 
> it's an "Omigosh!" serious risk.
> 
>> 40+ years of commuting, training, and racing have left me with a 
>> number of incidents where I hit my head hard enough to damage the helmet. 
> 
> Funny thing - I've had a couple of those that I remember. Except I 
> wasn't wearing a helmet. 

You _surmise_ the hits were hard enough to damage the helmet. You don't 
know that because you weren't wearing one.

> (I can relate the incidents yet again, if you 
> like.)

How many trips to the ER did you have to take to get stitches in your 
head? I've had two even with the helmet. In both those cases the helmet 
was shattered. You can believe I wouldn't have suffered any more injury 
than a few stitches if you wish, I believe otherwise.

> 
> Helmets are _very_ easily damaged. It's part of the marketing strategy - 
> a minor bump can damage it. If one takes a bump, you're advised to 
> immediately replace it, even if no damage is visible. And some companies 
> still claim you should replace it every few years, just in case... or 
> because they want the sales.

Read up on crumple zones - if the helmet doesn't absorb the impact, it 
goes into your skull. Yes, it's designed to do that, not to get you to 
buy a new one, but to protect your head, and yes, despite the cherry 
picked data you present, they work.

> 
> What other device do you own that has those same caracteristics?

Four automobiles. What used to cause a minor dent in a 1970 buick would 
now result in totaling the car. I suppose they do that just to increase 
auto sales, right?

> 
>> I can't say for sure it protected me from any brain injury, but I _do_ 
>> know it's protected me from bashing my head on rocks, trees, 
>> signposts, asphalt, walls, cars... - All of which would have required 
>> trips to the ER for stitches. For that reason alone it's worth it to 
>> me to wear one.
> 
> And of course, you're allowed to. Please keep in mind I'm talking about 
> normal riding, which for most people never involves any of those 
> inicidents. BTW, if I had such a list of events, I'd consider revising 
> my riding style.

It's a risk of competition that I'm willing to take. I have scar tissue 
on both hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders, knees, and hips.the only 
revision to my 'style' imho is to keep pushing the envelope so I can 
handle the bike in sketchy situations. My philosphy for mountain biking 
is 'if I don't crash at least once, I'm not riding hard enough'.

I'm actually quite lucky, the only broken bones (so far) are a right 
middle phalange and my nose. Other people I race with have fared far 
worse, one has broken both collar bones and a few ribs, another friend 
shattered his pelvis. Both of them are (were) cat 2 racers with far 
better race results than I ever came close to achieving. Maybe I should 
counsel them to stop wearing helmets and revise their riding styles?

> 
> 
>