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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 13:10:46 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 48 Message-ID: <vs44b6$qjc3$1@dont-email.me> References: <vrfuob$256og$1@dont-email.me> <vrpfua$2qbhf$2@dont-email.me> <211f9a2a284cb2deaa666f424c1ef826fe855e80@i2pn2.org> <vrq330$3dq3n$1@dont-email.me> <e7268e8ef47579cacb49b0533d51549a77eb0b96@i2pn2.org> <vrqb6f$3k9kh$2@dont-email.me> <3f250e699762cfe6fccc844f10eb04f32d470b6a@i2pn2.org> <vrrpcl$11a56$4@dont-email.me> <8423998561d8feee807509b0ed6335123d35a7c9@i2pn2.org> <vrt3gv$264jb$4@dont-email.me> <448c82acff6b5fc1d2aa266be92df6f778ec2c6a@i2pn2.org> <vru5tp$38ob9$1@dont-email.me> <ac61f679d7ddb39b0ceaedd7f562899d36346535@i2pn2.org> <vrvccp$aq8m$3@dont-email.me> <e166831a8e02332d64ec151f61481e2629e6e53a@i2pn2.org> <vrvsh4$p4vd$2@dont-email.me> <c93030bbd81fb313c76c256c6e54beb48b07dfdd@i2pn2.org> <vs1vuv$2ot1m$1@dont-email.me> <d2f86fad6c5823e3c098f30d331576c52263b398@i2pn2.org> <vs2fgn$354gv$5@dont-email.me> <61f821b5a18046ab36ddb6c52a003b574cf34de6@i2pn2.org> <vs2hnm$38lvq$1@dont-email.me> <9be1ff2af6bbf405565b27bc8211adf9f353e9f2@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:10:47 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8fbd84b24c3af7ac080451312d40f885"; logging-data="871811"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+F43fX1mpTaRSt6qWvskFu" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:CbRy32Tid4P2cyKTAivY7xrUKZs= In-Reply-To: <9be1ff2af6bbf405565b27bc8211adf9f353e9f2@i2pn2.org> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250327-8, 3/27/2025), Outbound message Bytes: 3919 On 3/27/2025 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 3/26/25 11:47 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 3/26/2025 10:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 3/26/25 11:09 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> >>>> _DDD() >>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>> >>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final staste even >>>>> if an unbounded number of steps are emulated. Since HHH doesn't do >>>>> that, it isn't showing non-halting. >>>>> >>>> >>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state >>>> in an unbounded number of steps. >>> >>> But DDD emulated by an actually correct emulator will, >> >> If you were not intentionally persisting in a lie you >> would acknowledge the dead obvious that DDD emulated >> by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language >> cannot possibly correctly reach its final halt state. > > And if you were not intentionally persisting in a lie, you would admit > that your HHH doesn't do that, as it stops before it finishes. > >> >> The behavior that DDD specifies to HHH <is> the behavior >> that it must report on. > > > Which, by the definition, is the behavior of the directly executed DDD, That is counter-factual. The behavior IS WHAT IT IS and that includes recursive emulation. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer