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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 13:40:14 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/27/2025 12:03 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 3/27/2025 12:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/27/2025 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 3/27/2025 8:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 5:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 16:54:11 +0700, John B. 
>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:41:46 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 09:48:09 +0700, John B. 
>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 09:54:32 -0400, Zen Cycle 
>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 10:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 11:02 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 16:53 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 11:11:14 -0400, Zen Cycle 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 4:19 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 21:20:38 -0400, Frank 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious traumatic brain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bicycling's contribution to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "causes" charts. Bicycling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far fewer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than pedestrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> historic data over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years shows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preventing either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fatalities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or concussions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Impossible to document that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong, as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7025438/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s41598-023-35728-x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Releases/2021/New-CDC- Report-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finds-More-Adults-Are-Dying-from-Bicycle- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Related- Accidents- CPSC-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Says-it-Highlights-the-Importance-of-Helmets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nsc.org/safety-first/bicycle- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safety- statistics-may-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise-you? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> srsltid=AfmBOoq4LC_IGLItTnDBXBm4Yu6K20nqSHjsZbqpkk-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQ2y4Y1J7hfbf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://biausa.org/public-affairs/media/keep- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your-brain- safe-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while- biking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> article/150/3/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e2022058878/188764/Helmet-Use-in-Preventing- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Head- Injuries-in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> autologincheck=redirected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These all contradict Frank, but that isn't the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of this message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The point of this message is to point out, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once again, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubstantiated conclusions rooted in willful 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How one would go about proving that bicycle 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets are not preventing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> either fatalities or concussions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistical accident analysis, just like it was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to show the
>>>>>>>>>>>> use of seat belts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is valid for groups and more accurate on 
>>>>>>>>>>> the probabilities for
>>>>>>>>>>> larger groups and/or for greater frequency 
>>>>>>>>>>> incidents.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, as noted here often, any given individual in 
>>>>>>>>>>> any given incident
>>>>>>>>>>> can fall anywhere along those curves.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'll agree with that last statement, with some 
>>>>>>>>>> reservations. But I'll
>>>>>>>>>> point out that the helmet propaganda tends to say 
>>>>>>>>>> that _anyone_ is at
>>>>>>>>>> risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride without 
>>>>>>>>>> a helmet. Example:
>>>>>>>>>> "You can fall over in your driveway and die."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've never seen any literature as alarmist as that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank has number of times, mentioned this
>>>>>>>> "I'll point out that the helmet propaganda tends to 
>>>>>>>> say that _anyone_
>>>>>>>> is at risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride 
>>>>>>>> without a helmet.".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Admittedly I don't spend my time reading helmet 
>>>>>>>> advertisements but
>>>>>>>> I've never come across this. Perhaps Frank could 
>>>>>>>> post a number of
>>>>>>>> references so we all can be aware of that these evil 
>>>>>>>> minded scoundrels
>>>>>>>> are doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Krygowski can't argue the facts, he has to make up 
>>>>>>> ridiculous childish
>>>>>>> strawmen to attack. As usual, he goes on and on as if 
>>>>>>> he had something
>>>>>>> important to say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Junior (Zen) has pretty much whipped Frank now so he 
>>>>>>> has changed to
>>>>>>> his secondary tactic. He changes the subject and 
>>>>>>> demands that Junior
>>>>>>> explain why he's promoting helmets, which, near as I 
>>>>>>> can see, is not,
>>>>>>> at all, what Junior is doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd be more interested in why Krygowski is trying to 
>>>>>>> convince people
>>>>>>> not to wear helmets. It's really no skin off his nose 
>>>>>>> if some people
>>>>>>> choose to wear them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well... its no skin off anyone's back whether you pray 
>>>>>> to "The God of
>>>>>> Abraham" and call him "Allah", or "Yahweh", or 
>>>>>> "Jehovah" but the
>>>>>> adherents have spent nearly as many years killing each 
>>>>>> other "in the
>>>>>> name of God" as they have spent praying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, I suspect, that no matter of any proof to the 
>>>>>> contrary Frankie
>>>>>> will go on demanding that "his way" is the "only way" 
>>>>>> and all should
>>>>>> adhere to his beliefs.
>>>>>
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