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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:12:38 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/27/2025 6:26 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 17:51:47 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/27/2025 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 15:46:01 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:58 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 12:03 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 12:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 5:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 16:54:11 +0700, John B.
>>>>>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:41:46 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 09:48:09 +0700, John B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 09:54:32 -0400, Zen Cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 10:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 11:02 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 16:53 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 11:11:14 -0400, Zen Cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 4:19 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 21:20:38 -0400, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of serious traumatic brain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bicycling's contribution to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "causes" charts. Bicycling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer than pedestrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> historic data over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years shows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not preventing either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fatalities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or concussions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Impossible to document that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong, as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC7025438/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s41598-023-35728-x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Releases/2021/New- CDC- Report-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finds-More-Adults-Are-Dying-from-Bicycle-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Related- Accidents- CPSC-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Says-it-Highlights-the-Importance-of-Helmets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nsc.org/safety-first/bicycle-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safety- statistics-may-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise-you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> srsltid=AfmBOoq4LC_IGLItTnDBXBm4Yu6K20nqSHjsZbqpkk-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQ2y4Y1J7hfbf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://biausa.org/public-affairs/media/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep- your-brain- safe-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while- biking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> article/150/3/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e2022058878/188764/Helmet-Use-in-Preventing-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Head- Injuries-in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> autologincheck=redirected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These all contradict Frank, but that isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point of this message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The point of this message is to point out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once again, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubstantiated conclusions rooted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willful ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How one would go about proving that bicycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets are not preventing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either fatalities or concussions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistical accident analysis, just like it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was possible to show the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use of seat belts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is valid for groups and more accurate on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the probabilities for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger groups and/or for greater frequency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incidents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, as noted here often, any given individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any given incident
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fall anywhere along those curves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll agree with that last statement, with some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reservations. But I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point out that the helmet propaganda tends to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that _anyone_ is at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without a helmet. Example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You can fall over in your driveway and die."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never seen any literature as alarmist as that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frank has number of times, mentioned this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I'll point out that the helmet propaganda tends
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to say that _anyone_
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is at risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without a helmet.".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly I don't spend my time reading helmet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advertisements but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never come across this. Perhaps Frank could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post a number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> references so we all can be aware of that these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evil minded scoundrels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski can't argue the facts, he has to make up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous childish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strawmen to attack. As usual, he goes on and on as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he had something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Junior (Zen) has pretty much whipped Frank now so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he has changed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his secondary tactic. He changes the subject and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> demands that Junior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain why he's promoting helmets, which, near as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can see, is not,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, what Junior is doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be more interested in why Krygowski is trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to convince people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not to wear helmets. It's really no skin off his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nose if some people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose to wear them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well... its no skin off anyone's back whether you
>>>>>>>>>>>> pray to "The God of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Abraham" and call him "Allah", or "Yahweh", or
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jehovah" but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> adherents have spent nearly as many years killing
>>>>>>>>>>>> each other "in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> name of God" as they have spent praying.
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