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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 10:33:21 +0100
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Op 28.mrt.2025 om 02:21 schreef olcott:
> On 3/27/2025 8:09 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 3/27/2025 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> staste even if an unbounded number of steps are emulated. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since HHH doesn't do that, it isn't showing non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1 reaches its final state in a finite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a simulator 
>>>>>>>>>>>> reports that it is unable to reach the end of the simulation 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of a program that halts in direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting.
>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own
>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is not 
>>>>>>>>>> computing the required mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:19:42 PM UTC-5, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>  > In other words you could find any error in my post so you 
>>>>>>>> resort to the
>>>>>>>>  > lame tactic of ad hominem personal attack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/22/2024 10:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>  > *Ad Hominem attacks are the first resort of clueless wonders*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you
>>>>> ignore these corrections and mindlessly repeat
>>>>> your error like a bot 
>>>>
>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years.
>>>>
>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list.
>>>>
>>>
>>> TM's cannot possibly ever report on the behavior
>>> of the direct execution of another TM. 
>>
>> False:
>>
> 
> I did not say that no TM can ever report on
> behavior that matches the behavior of a directly
> executing TM.
> 
> No TM can every directly see the behavior of the
> direct execution of any other TM because no TM can
> take a directly executing TM as an input.
> 
So we agree that the answer for:
'Is there an algorithm that can determine for all possible inputs 
whether the input specifies a program that (according to the semantics 
of the machine language) halts when directly executed?'
is 'no'. Correct?