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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 14:27:36 -0500
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On 3/28/2025 2:17 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 3/28/2025 3:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/28/2025 1:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 3/28/2025 1:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:33 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 10:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:24 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:09 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final staste even if an unbounded number of steps 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are emulated. Since HHH doesn't do that, it isn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> showing non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1 reaches its final state in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulator reports that it is unable to reach the end 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the simulation of a program that halts in direct 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> execution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not computing the required mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:19:42 PM UTC-5, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > In other words you could find any error in my post so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you resort to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > lame tactic of ad hominem personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2024 10:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > *Ad Hominem attacks are the first resort of clueless 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonders*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you
>>>>>>>>>>>> ignore these corrections and mindlessly repeat
>>>>>>>>>>>> your error like a bot 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TM's cannot possibly ever report on the behavior
>>>>>>>>>> of the direct execution of another TM. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> False:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not say that no TM can ever report on
>>>>>>>> behavior that matches the behavior of a directly
>>>>>>>> executing TM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good, because that's all that's required for a solution to the 
>>>>>>> halting problem:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are sometimes when the behavior of TM Description
>>>>>> D correctly simulated by UTM1 does not match the behavior
>>>>>> correctly simulated by UTM2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Irrelevant, because to satisfy the requirements, the behavior of 
>>>>> the described machine when executed directly must be reported.
>>>>
>>>> I HAVE PROVED THAT THE REQUIREMENT IS WRONG NITWIT.
>>>
>>> Category error.
>>>
>>> I want to know if any arbitrary algorithm X with input Y will halt 
>>> when executed directly. 
>>
>> It is 100% impossible for any TM to take another executing
>> TM as its input. 
> 
> But it can take a complete description of a TM that 

Is not always a perfect proxy for the behavior
of the direct execution of the underlying machine.

I have proven this hundreds and hundreds of times
over several years. PATHOLOGICAL SELF-REFERENCE
CANNOT SIMPLY BE IGNORED. IT IS EITHER MORONIC
OR DISHONEST TO DO SO.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer