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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 16:38:19 -0400
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On 3/28/2025 4:30 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/28/2025 2:24 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 3/28/2025 3:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/28/2025 4:43 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 28.mrt.2025 om 03:13 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/25 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> staste even if an unbounded number of steps are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated. Since HHH doesn't do that, it isn't showing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1 reaches its final state in a finite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a simulator 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reports that it is unable to reach the end of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a program that halts in direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not computing the required mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:19:42 PM UTC-5, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > In other words you could find any error in my post so you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> resort to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>  > lame tactic of ad hominem personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2024 10:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>  > *Ad Hominem attacks are the first resort of clueless wonders*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you
>>>>>>>>> ignore these corrections and mindlessly repeat
>>>>>>>>> your error like a bot 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TM's cannot possibly ever report on the behavior
>>>>>>> of the direct execution of another TM. I proved
>>>>>>> this many times in may ways. Ignoring these proofs
>>>>>>> IT NOT ANY FORM OF REBUTTAL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure they can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WHere is your proof? And what actual accepted principles is is 
>>>>>> based on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No TM can take another directly executed TM as an input
>>>>> and Turing computable functions only compute the mapping
>>>>> from inputs to outputs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If A TM can only compute the mapping from *its* input to *its* 
>>>> output, it cannot be wrong.
>>>
>>> Taking a wild guess does not count as computing the mapping.
>>
>> False.  The only requirement is to map a member of the input domain to 
>> a member of the output domain as per the requirements.
>>
>> If it does so in all cases, the mapping is computed.  It doesn't 
>> matter how it's done.
>>
> 
> Unless an input is transformed into an output
> on the basis of a syntactic or semantic property
> of this input it is not a Turing computable function.
> 
> int StringLength(char *S)
> {
>    return 5;
> }
> 
> Does not compute the string length of any string.
> 


False.  It computes the length of all strings of length 5.