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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 17:09:13 -0500
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On 3/28/2025 3:38 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 3/28/2025 4:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/28/2025 2:24 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 3/28/2025 3:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/28/2025 4:43 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 28.mrt.2025 om 03:13 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/25 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> staste even if an unbounded number of steps are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated. Since HHH doesn't do that, it isn't showing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1 reaches its final state in a finite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a simulator 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reports that it is unable to reach the end of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a program that halts in direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not computing the required mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:19:42 PM UTC-5, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > In other words you could find any error in my post so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you resort to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  > lame tactic of ad hominem personal attack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Troll
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2024 10:51 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>  > *Ad Hominem attacks are the first resort of clueless wonders*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you
>>>>>>>>>> ignore these corrections and mindlessly repeat
>>>>>>>>>> your error like a bot 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TM's cannot possibly ever report on the behavior
>>>>>>>> of the direct execution of another TM. I proved
>>>>>>>> this many times in may ways. Ignoring these proofs
>>>>>>>> IT NOT ANY FORM OF REBUTTAL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure they can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WHere is your proof? And what actual accepted principles is is 
>>>>>>> based on?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No TM can take another directly executed TM as an input
>>>>>> and Turing computable functions only compute the mapping
>>>>>> from inputs to outputs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If A TM can only compute the mapping from *its* input to *its* 
>>>>> output, it cannot be wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Taking a wild guess does not count as computing the mapping.
>>>
>>> False.  The only requirement is to map a member of the input domain 
>>> to a member of the output domain as per the requirements.
>>>
>>> If it does so in all cases, the mapping is computed.  It doesn't 
>>> matter how it's done.
>>>
>>
>> Unless an input is transformed into an output
>> on the basis of a syntactic or semantic property
>> of this input it is not a Turing computable function.
>>
>> int StringLength(char *S)
>> {
>>    return 5;
>> }
>>
>> Does not compute the string length of any string.
>>
> 
> 
> False.  It computes the length of all strings of length 5.

It does not compute (a sequence of steps of an
algorithm that derive an output on the basis of
an input) jack shit it makes a guess.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer