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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 17:41:12 -0500
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On 3/28/2025 4:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 3/28/25 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 3/27/25 10:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/25 9:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/25 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 4:56 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 27 Mar 2025 13:10:46 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/25 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 10:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/25 11:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> staste even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if an unbounded number of steps are emulated. Since HHH 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, it isn't showing non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final state 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But DDD emulated by an actually correct emulator will,
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you were not intentionally persisting in a lie you would
>>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledge the dead obvious that DDD emulated by HHH 
>>>>>>>>>>>> according to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics of the x86 language cannot possibly correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its
>>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, HHH is not a correct simulator.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You say that it is not a correct simulator on the basis
>>>>>>>> of your ignorance of the x86 language that conclusively
>>>>>>>> proves that HHH does correctly simulate the first four
>>>>>>>> instructions of DDD and correctly simulates itself
>>>>>>>> simulating the first four instructions of DDD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It isn't a correct simulator, 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You know that you are lying about this or you would
>>>>>> show how DDD emulated by HHH would reach its final state
>>>>>> ACCORDING TO THE SEMANTICS OF THE X86 LANGUAGE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It can't be, because your HHH doesn't meet your requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You cannot show that because you know you are lying about that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure we can, make a main that directly calls HHH and then DDD, then 
>>> call HHH1(DDD)
>>>
>>> That HHH will return 0, saying that DDD is non-halting, but the DDD 
>>> wll return, showing that DDD is halting.
>>>
>>> Look at the trace that HHH generates, and that HHH1 generates, HHH's 
>>> will be a subset of the trace that HHH1 generates, showing that it is 
>>> NOT proof that this program is non-halting as that exact same initial 
>>> segment halts.
>>>
>>> Your argument about changing HHH shows that it doesn't halt is just 
>>> invalid, as then you either changed the input, or demonstrated that 
>>> you input was a class error as it didn't contain the COMPLETE 
>>> representation of the code of DDD.
>>>
>>> Sorry, This is what you have been told for years, but you refuse to 
>>> look at the truth, because you have been brainwashed by your lies.
>>>
>>> Look
>>
>> I can't understand how that confused mess addresses
>> the point of this thread:
>>
>> It is a verified fact that the finite string of machine
>> code of DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantics of
>> the x86 language has different behavior than DDD emulated
>> by HHH1 according to the semantics of the x86 language.
>>
> 
> Where did you "verify" that LIE.
> 
> You claim fails the simple test:
> 
> What is the first instruction actually correctly emulated by the rules 
> of the x86 language by HHH and HHH1 that had a different result.
> 

When DDD emulated by HHH calls HHH(DDD) this call NEVER returns.
When DDD emulated by HHH1 calls HHH(DDD) this call returns.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer