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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2025 10:09:59 +0200
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Op 30.mrt.2025 om 22:30 schreef olcott:
> On 3/30/2025 9:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 29.mrt.2025 om 22:07 schreef olcott:
>>> On 3/29/2025 3:45 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 29.mrt.2025 om 20:03 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 3/29/2025 10:23 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/29/2025 11:12 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/28/2025 11:00 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/28/2025 11:45 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It defines that it must compute the mapping from
>>>>>>>>> the direct execution of a Turing Machine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which does not require tracing an actual running TM, only 
>>>>>>>> mapping properties of the TM described. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The key fact that you continue to dishonestly ignore
>>>>>>> is the concrete counter-example that I provided that
>>>>>>> conclusively proves that the finite string of machine
>>>>>>> code input is not always a valid proxy for the behavior
>>>>>>> of the underlying virtual machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words, you deny the concept of a UTM, which can take a 
>>>>>> description of any Turing machine and exactly reproduce the 
>>>>>> behavior of the direct execution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I deny that a pathological relationship between a UTM and
>>>>> its input can be correctly ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>> When this pathological relationship changes this behavior
>>>>> we cannot simply pretend that the behavior is not changed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When solving a problem, it is stupid to choose a tool that has a 
>>>> pathological relation with the problem. 
>>>
>>> A termination analyzer cannot reject itself, 
>> but it can report that it failed to do a correct analysis. 
> 
> In the same way that the sum of an actual
> cat and an actual pallet of bricks cannot
> be correctly computed.

And a program that is asked to do so, is correct when it reports that it 
cannot do it.
Similarly, the analyser can report that it failed to do a correct analysis.

> 
>> That is what HHH does when it fails to reach the end of the simulation 
>> of a program that has an end as proven by direct execution and world- 
>> class simulators.
> 
> _DDD()
> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
> [00002183] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
> 
> DDD EMULATED BY HHH DOES SPECIFY THAT IT
> CANNOT POSSIBLY REACH ITS OWN FINAL HALT STATE.
> 
> THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES
> IS A DAMNED LIAR OR STUPID.
> 

Yes, indeed, it says that it fails to reach the end of the simulation. 
An end that exists, as proven by direct execution and other world-class 
simulators.