Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2025 17:10:00 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <vsf3ro$1crun$2@dont-email.me>
References: <vrfuob$256og$1@dont-email.me> <vs6srk$39556$12@dont-email.me>
 <vs6t10$2p360$6@dont-email.me> <vs70tc$39556$21@dont-email.me>
 <vs71bq$2p360$10@dont-email.me> <vs76m9$3m3q0$1@dont-email.me>
 <vs77th$2p360$11@dont-email.me> <vs78cu$3ms9k$1@dont-email.me>
 <c2b91231b9052e07b6705250938fb9095e711327@i2pn2.org>
 <vs7kvf$3eal$2@dont-email.me>
 <aeb75b411e9f77c974585181c671a47d03b22078@i2pn2.org>
 <vs7qdm$8dae$2@dont-email.me> <vs7r9b$8ajp$1@dont-email.me>
 <vs92l3$1fccq$5@dont-email.me> <vs93ae$1k9u2$1@dont-email.me>
 <vs9g5p$1v2n9$5@dont-email.me> <vs9gcg$20g2j$3@dont-email.me>
 <vs9h9o$23cav$2@dont-email.me> <vs9hh3$20g2j$6@dont-email.me>
 <vs9jie$23cav$4@dont-email.me> <vs9kb1$26cg5$2@dont-email.me>
 <vs9pni$27rl4$9@dont-email.me>
 <3ade9e84224ba9b99c7363e0e9b69181804b7daa@i2pn2.org>
 <vsc2fd$1vihj$2@dont-email.me>
 <e1da7d564873d36f88e119fbbbdafd8c6b0f675e@i2pn2.org>
 <vsc9o7$2bk3d$2@dont-email.me> <vsdjis$3o5ff$2@dont-email.me>
 <vselvf$th5g$2@dont-email.me> <vsepl9$125ec$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2025 00:10:02 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="36d3ab42b456229d7015555efad62f36";
	logging-data="1470423"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+ypt69pErs23RqvR8qYJM2"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:2gZjBQMIvAO8KMEEusGDEjGFUJ8=
In-Reply-To: <vsepl9$125ec$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250331-6, 3/31/2025), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Bytes: 5728

On 3/31/2025 2:15 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 31.mrt.2025 om 20:13 schreef olcott:
>> On 3/31/2025 3:26 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 30.mrt.2025 om 22:32 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 3/30/2025 1:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/30/25 2:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/30/2025 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Sat, 29 Mar 2025 16:46:26 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 3/29/2025 3:14 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/29/2025 4:01 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We can know that when this adapted UTM simulates a finite 
>>>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>>>> steps of its input that this finite number of steps were 
>>>>>>>>>> simulated
>>>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>>>> And therefore does not do a correct UTM simulation that matches 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> behavior of the direct execution as it is incomplete.
>>>>>>>> It is dishonest to expect non-terminating inputs to complete.
>>>>>>> A complete simulation of a nonterminating input doesn't halt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2) changing the input is not allowed
>>>>>>>>>> The input is unchanged. There never was any indication that 
>>>>>>>>>> the input
>>>>>>>>>> was in any way changed.
>>>>>>>>> False, if the starting function calls UTM and UTM changes, you're
>>>>>>>>> changing the input.
>>>>>>>> When UTM1 is a UTM that has been adapted to only simulate a finite
>>>>>>>> number of steps
>>>>>>> So not an UTM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and input D calls UTM1 then the behavior of D simulated
>>>>>>>> by UTM1 never reaches its final halt state.
>>>>>>>> When D is simulated by ordinary UTM2 that D does not call Then D 
>>>>>>>> reaches
>>>>>>>> its final halt state.
>>>>>>> Doesn't matter if it calls it, but if the UTM halts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Changing the input is not allowed.
>>>>>>>> I never changed the input. D always calls UTM1.
>>>>>>>> thus is the same input to UTM1 as it is to UTM2.
>>>>>>> You changed UTM1, which is part of the input D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UTM1 simulates D that calls UTM1
>>>>>> simulated D NEVER reaches final halt state
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UTM2 simulates D that calls UTM1
>>>>>> simulated D ALWAYS reaches final halt state
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Only because UTM1 isn't actually a UTM, but a LIE since it only 
>>>>> does a partial simulation, not a complete as REQURIED by the 
>>>>> definition of a UTM.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>
>>>> DDD EMULATED BY HHH DOES SPECIFY THAT IT
>>>> CANNOT POSSIBLY REACH ITS OWN FINAL HALT STATE.
>>>>
>>>> THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES
>>>> IS A DAMNED LIAR OR STUPID.
>>>>
>>> But we all agree that HHH fails to reach the end of the simulation of 
>>> this finite recursion. An end that exists as proven by direct 
>>> execution and world class simulators. Why repeating this agreement as 
>>> if someone denies it?
>>
>> If you want me to respond to any other your replies
>> you have to quit playing trollish head games.
> So agreeing with you is playing trollish head games?
> That explains what you are doing.

Dishonestly twisting my words is not agreement.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer