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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Subject: Re: living without fridge or food preparation Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 19:09:41 +1000 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 154 Message-ID: <vsiusr$1etkb$1@dont-email.me> References: <vs3j2r$auhl$1@dont-email.me> <vs3lpj$cs14$1@dont-email.me> <vs72l7$3fnps$1@dont-email.me> <vsc0g8$22630$1@dont-email.me> <vsc6c6$286rg$1@dont-email.me> <vscenu$2gt3c$1@dont-email.me> <vsck01$29pvv$1@dont-email.me> <vsenc6$vmq1$1@dont-email.me> Injection-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2025 11:09:48 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="65108bf9bd0805a1d6b04af3faea5f63"; logging-data="1537675"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18VUiP7tg3YpOAxNc/TbfVSrr0f1cOpubQ=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:guGubhNW5ICBVVVgfNYEgbgY4G4= X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Bytes: 7132 "Carol" <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote in message news:vsenc6$vmq1$1@dont-email.me... > Jill McQuown wrote: > > > On 3/30/2025 5:57 PM, Carol wrote: > > > Paul Edwards wrote: > > > Good luck! What's the plan for the laptop? Trying to fill a > > > powerbank of any size at 40w will be painful. The rough figures I have from an internet search is: smartphone 5 Wh (one charge per day) laptop 56 Wh ("typical daily") Theoretically I only need 2 hours of sun per day to keep those things operational. And if I want to start getting draconian, I can do programming on my smartphone, with the laptop only being used for maybe 10 minutes per day on average to cover a new release. I have previously experimented with having the smartphone display turned down to minimum, or one less than minimum, brightness. And I haven't yet tried selecting a laptop for minimum power usage. So still data to collect. > > It's an odd wish considering food is the least consideration. One > > can live without computers but one cannot live without food. One can live with food pared down to just a drink designed to keep you alive. One can't release software without electricity. > I suspect he'll be at home and wandering maybe a week fairly nearby. There is no particular need to leave home at all. When I read the book "The Kontiki Expedition", there was one person who was horrified at the thought of bringing a radio, as if that would invalidate the experiment. But the other person pointed out that so long as they didn't use it to assist with navigation, it wasn't going to affect the experiment at all. The situation may not be immediately obvious. E.g. in Australia, some people have been given a penalty (by the government) of not being allowed to use the internet. Maybe one day I will be banished to not be allowed to use electricity, and they are unaware that I have access to portable solar. Or parents could be issuing such a penalty to their child. Or - a genuine situation that arose recently (not in Australia). A family has access to grid electricity. One member of the family is not working, not paying bills, but using the air conditioner. To the point that the electricity bill has been unpaid and the electricity has been cut. Due to cultural constraints, the freeloader can't be kicked out of the house, nor can the air conditioner be unscrewed and removed. And nor can the freeloader be reasoned with. In some mentalities, people don't stop spending money until their physical wallet is empty. They have no self-control. So what are other members of the family meant to do? 40W solar is a whole lot better than ZERO. And give me some time, and I'll show you what you can do with 80 Wh. ie release new versions of PDOS. I have already demonstrated that when I had a 100W solar. This one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0977T9ZNJ using just the USB-A outlet, ie not PD. I wasn't so much after the 100W to get 100W, as to compensate for rainy weather, where things operate at something like 50% of sunny weather capacity. So basically I was getting 50W, rain or shine. But now I am driving towards more minimalism. The solution is not only for me, but for perhaps situations (Africa or whatever) where people may be able to get some solar installed, but have to share it between 50 people, so each individual gets just enough to charge a smartphone in a day. Can they do computer programming? Yes they can. Demonstrably so (as I demonstrate it). They do some shows like "Survivor", not sure if they are deliberately testing human endurance. I am doing something similar - how much work you can get done with a little bit of electricity. The liquid food is more of a nice touch. Without sleep deprivation - ie just waking up naturally - how much programming can you do in one day? Right at the moment I'm not trying to screw maximum time out of a programmer (ie me) with sleep deprivation etc. I'm just trying to find the minimum amount of electricity I need to provide to a programmer (ie me), so that lack of electricity is not a barrier if he "does the right thing" by not "wasting" precious energy on hot food or hot showers etc and prioritizes keeping the computer operational. I'm not saying it is exactly that goal. That's just the sort of analogy. And it's not just for me. It's a starting point for someone in a similar but different situation. I do not have a cultural constraint of kicking out a freeloader. Others do. So they may or may not need to adjust the parameters of the experiment. Another example might be a blind person who doesn't need a screen at all. I don't know what the electricity consumption is for using a screen reader (audio). And there may be software solutions to minimize even that. E.g. only give audio feedback if someone types an invalid word - otherwise they trust that they have touch-typed correctly, or the auto-correct has done the job sufficiently well. I'm personally not testing this right at the moment. But perhaps under the right circumstances - severe energy constraint - everyone will be hiring blind programmers (note that they exist, but they don't currently swamp the market because electricity isn't a constraining factor - right now). Maybe in Cuba it will be a constraint. Or a war zone like Sudan. It didn't use to be an issue in Venezuela, but then suddenly it was. In Ukraine the electricity has been deliberately targeted. There is another OS - Collapse OS: https://collapseos.org/ that is based on that concept for different reasons (and they are not alone - they provide such links). I'm not covering that aspect (scavenging). Just electricity. And there could be a wartime situation too where whoever uses electricity the most efficiently to keep programmers programming wins. BFN. Paul.