Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:48:00 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <vsk7q0$2omru$3@dont-email.me>
References: <vrru3v$152e3$3@dont-email.me> <B0kEP.112929$Xq5f.111799@fx38.iad>
 <f9k3ujl9ev5nopn2f329cuesca36o9c7j0@4ax.com> <vrskop$1qlue$1@dont-email.me>
 <vrt0d6$24h8c$2@dont-email.me> <m4f68uFpiqsU1@mid.individual.net>
 <ogu4ujpkvk3ck8tojoh6fkq5tbmkmh1oor@4ax.com> <vru3fn$31kv7$1@dont-email.me>
 <4s45uj1f7a09kdh5cuau8e2k37snjcm2g5@4ax.com> <vrudkh$3fet8$3@dont-email.me>
 <vruj8u$3i4m6$3@dont-email.me> <vrvmhi$j8eo$3@dont-email.me>
 <vs0m66$1h7oe$2@dont-email.me> <vs18m6$21gj2$2@dont-email.me>
 <vs1kob$26rhh$2@dont-email.me> <vs2e67$35mlr$1@dont-email.me>
 <vs3c0r$44vf$1@dont-email.me> <vs41lu$nm05$2@dont-email.me>
 <vs4a3h$vujk$1@dont-email.me> <vs4ln6$19l8m$1@dont-email.me>
 <vshdve$3pl7o$2@dont-email.me> <vsjq7o$28mef$5@dont-email.me>
 <vsjqsj$1vmjo$2@dont-email.me> <vsk0cp$2fsig$5@dont-email.me>
 <vsk56v$1vmjo$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2025 22:48:00 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a8007339a1727158871e9314bf4dbe7a";
	logging-data="2907006"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/2ft13G/fo5o7yMx6y4Tnh"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Erx6WizUSQfCviD0WQac2lgT/Bw=
In-Reply-To: <vsk56v$1vmjo$3@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 5247

On 4/2/2025 3:03 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 4/2/2025 2:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/2/2025 1:07 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 4/2/2025 12:56 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 4/1/2025 3:14 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-) Such confidence! I note that you haven't addressed 
>>>>>> the relative frequency of TBI shown in the big pie 
>>>>>> chart at
>>>>>> https://how-sen.com/journal/2014/2/bike-helmets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or maybe you haven't seen data like in
>>>>>> https://www.internationalbrain.org/resources/brain- 
>>>>>> injury-facts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which states "United States Annually: 50,000 people 
>>>>>> die" [of TBI] . But fewer than 500 are bicyclists.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did address it, I stated that the numbers were 
>>>>> relevant to my point.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And "Causes of Traumatic Brain Injury :    Motor 
>>>>>> Vehicle Crashes account for 50% of all TBIs. This 
>>>>>> includes autos, trucks, motorcycles, bicycles, and 
>>>>>> pedestrians hit by vehicles.
>>>>>>      The leading causes of TBI vary by age: falls are 
>>>>>> the leading cause of TBI among persons aged 65 years 
>>>>>> and older; transportation is the leading cause of TBI 
>>>>>> among persons under the age of 65 years.
>>>>>>      Estimates suggest that sports related brain 
>>>>>> injury accounts for close to 300,000 injuries each 
>>>>>> year, with winter sports such as skiing and ice- 
>>>>>> skating accounting for close to 20,000 brain injuries. 
>>>>>> (7) "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, bicycling is barely mentioned, and is 
>>>>>> justifiably given no more prominence than autos, 
>>>>>> inside which far more incidents of TBI occur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't really fault you for having believed that 
>>>>>> bicycling is an unusual and  horrible risk for TBI. 
>>>>>> After all, the propaganda machine has been in high 
>>>>>> gear for decades. But it's now time for you to educate 
>>>>>> yourself and put things in the proper perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I _do_ fault you for repeatedly mischaracterizing 
>>>>> my position.
>>>>> At no time did I state our otherwise imply that 
>>>>> "bicycling is an
>>>>>   unusual and  horrible risk for TBI. I stated this 
>>>>> unequivocally several times already.
>>>>> But now it's time for you to stop building strawmen and 
>>>>> try arguing objectively rather than emotionally.
>>>>
>>>> Zen, you have not precisely said "Bicycling is such an 
>>>> unusual risk for TBI that you should always wear a 
>>>> helmet when you ride."
>>>>
>>>> But you _did_ confess that you regularly tell people 
>>>> that if they are going to ride on roads - normal roads! 
>>>> - they should always wear a helmet. 
>>>
>>> Why do you always seem surprised about normal roads?
>>>
>>>> As far as we know, you have not said the same to 
>>>> pedestrians or motorists, to skateboarders or scooter 
>>>> riders or joggers. That alone is strong indication that 
>>>> you're treating bicycling as unusual.
>>>
>>> I tell my grandchildren they can't roller skate, 
>>> skateboard, or ride their scooters without a helmet while 
>>> under my care.
>>
>> Really!
>>
>> Do you let them run without a helmet? Say, playing tag?
> 
> yup
> 
> 

+1

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6250260-free-range-kids

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971