Deutsch   English   Français   Italiano  
<vskgbb$30ibs$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article

Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: poor man's decal
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:13:45 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 140
Message-ID: <vskgbb$30ibs$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vshl74$2cuo$1@dont-email.me>
 <1ra5why.93z7njb9v8aoN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <vsjg4g$1vc62$1@dont-email.me>
 <1ra65oj.x9tze71akz332N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <vsjods$28fho$1@dont-email.me>
 <1ra6ccy.1e2zfi4n410jxN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2025 01:13:48 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e8eaccaf398234e1fe44234119a19715";
	logging-data="3164540"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19narFiYeBkdhgMqN1kVxAP"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/102.2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:a8SKN/bdmfN24suYlCS0ZLKK3/U=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <1ra6ccy.1e2zfi4n410jxN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>

On 4/2/2025 10:23 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/2/2025 7:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> [...]
>>> Usually the entire surface and a bit beyond, then trim off the excess.
>>
>> Doesn't that make it hard to remove?  Or, are yours "small(er)"?
>> (Note my smallest is 8x17 and they quickly get larger)
> 
> Most of mine are on die-cast boxes about 4" x 6".  There is always a
> layer of double-sided tape showing at the cut edge, so it can be prised
> open at the corner with a knife or similar imstrument.

Hmmmm... the exemplar you provided seemed to be larger than that (?)

>> I was
>> assuming I would need a low tack adhesive -- almost like Post-It
>> notes...
> 
> There is an adhesive called "Copydex" in the U.K., which is a latex
> emulsion that becomes rubbery when the water component evaporates.  "Low
> tack" would be a polite way of describing it - the problem isan't
> removing it, but getting it to stay on in the first place.  I have used
> it to stick paper copies of the artwork onto the  front panel to use as
> a drilling jig, then it can be peeled off easily.  The latex tended to
> wrap itself around the drill bit  . . . followed by the paper label.

Yes, we have similar adhesives ("rubber cement", etc.).

There are actually a shitload of different adhesives available
for different purposes.  Usually the desire is for strong holding.
But, some applications deliberately want low tack (e.g., in masking
artwork)

> I have used PVA adhesive, with much greater success.  It wouldn't be any
> use for permanent fixing on metal but the non-waterproof grade holds the
> label long enough to allow drilling and can easily be removed with water
> and a scouring pad.

I used a spray adhesive to repair a headliner.  Granted, it's not
a heavy weight to support.  *But*, it is "upside down" perpetually
(so, gravity is trying to pull it off) and very large (a dozen square
feet?).

I will have to see if I can locate the remnants of the can as I am
sure I didn't use all of it.

>> I was planning on making a form onto which the label could be
>> positioned "upside down".  Then, mate the label-carrying form
>> to the panel surface.
> 
> That's a good idea if all your panels are the same size - no two of mine
> are ever alike.

I have some applications that are "multiples" and others that are
singletons.

If I constrain the singletons, then I may be able to make a
"customizable form" that I can readily adapt to the needs of
the instance.  Note that it doesn't have to hold any significant
weight so need not be "substantial" in composition; rather, just
something that acts as "many hands" holding parts of the label
until it is time to release ALL of it.

>>> True, but i have known these acetate labels to survive nearly 5 years
>>> outdoors on a south-facing wall (in English weather, which is not the
>>> severest of UV tests).
>>
>> Yes, but no one is likely *poking* at it.
> 
> My front panels get a bit of prodding and scuffing - but nothing too
> violent.

I opted for the 7 mil variety of laminating film as it adds a bit
more armor (3 mil is just cosmetic; 5 mil is probably marginal;
10 mil is probably overkill)

>>> The acetate sheet can be ripped off, so the solvent attacks the sticky
>>> stuff fairly directly.
>>
>> I can try it.
> 
> If you use White Spirit, the smell will be no worse than fresh paint and
> will clear quite quickly.  There is also a form of refined petroleum
> ("White Gas") sold by Colemans for their camping stoves, that is more
> flammable but doesn't leave any lingering smells at all.

For personal use, I am not averse to mild solvents (I have nothing
stronger than xylene and MEK on hand -- though I rarely progress beyond
mineral spirits when looking to dissolve adhesives as some of the
solvents are too aggressive against plastic surfaces -- or, will take
the "patina" off).

I tried "odorless mineral spirits", once, and found it hugely disappointing
compared to "real" mineral spirits.

>> I will try a spray adhesive instead of double-sided tape
>> as that seems like it would be easier to address a large surface.
>> E.g., when you reinstall a headliner, that's the approach taken.
> 
> You might find the solvent attacks the print.  Several thin layers,
> sprayed from a distance, are preferable to one thick layer sprayed
> closely.

I need to find the leftovers, first, so I can make a test pass with
it.  I can visalize the can -- but not the WRITING on it!  :<

>> (this is why I prefer replacement
>> for most items -- carry the "failed" unit back to the depot
>> for analysis/repair but get the customer back up and running
>> quickly.
> 
> And doesn't depend on the serviceman having the skill and experience to
> spot the cause that caused the cause of the fault.

Exactly.  Use him as an extension of more capable peoples' (based in the
depot) limbs.

And, the customer sees a quick turn-around -- instead of standing
over the serviceman's shoulder wondering WHEN he will be done and
*if* he will actually leave them with a functional system.

>>> You can see a picture of the sort of results I have managed to obtain
>>> at:
>>> http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/DistortionMeter/Manual.pdf
>>
>> Do you precut the openings?  Or, as you mentioned above, "burn"
>> through the acetate once the label is affixed (less of an alignment
>> problem, there)?
> 
> After fixing the acetate sheet I burn them through with a soldering
> iron, then trim up the flash with a rat-tailed file (file towards the
> panel, never away from it).  On that particular piece of equipment, I
> may have cut around the meter hole with a knife because it is rather
> large.

A *pointed* Xacto knife isn't suitable for the whole task?  Or, do you risk
the cut "tearing"/"running" through the acetate to areas undesired?