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Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: poor man's decal Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:13:45 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 140 Message-ID: <vskgbb$30ibs$1@dont-email.me> References: <vshl74$2cuo$1@dont-email.me> <1ra5why.93z7njb9v8aoN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <vsjg4g$1vc62$1@dont-email.me> <1ra65oj.x9tze71akz332N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <vsjods$28fho$1@dont-email.me> <1ra6ccy.1e2zfi4n410jxN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2025 01:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e8eaccaf398234e1fe44234119a19715"; logging-data="3164540"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19narFiYeBkdhgMqN1kVxAP" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:a8SKN/bdmfN24suYlCS0ZLKK3/U= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <1ra6ccy.1e2zfi4n410jxN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> On 4/2/2025 10:23 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 4/2/2025 7:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > [...] >>> Usually the entire surface and a bit beyond, then trim off the excess. >> >> Doesn't that make it hard to remove? Or, are yours "small(er)"? >> (Note my smallest is 8x17 and they quickly get larger) > > Most of mine are on die-cast boxes about 4" x 6". There is always a > layer of double-sided tape showing at the cut edge, so it can be prised > open at the corner with a knife or similar imstrument. Hmmmm... the exemplar you provided seemed to be larger than that (?) >> I was >> assuming I would need a low tack adhesive -- almost like Post-It >> notes... > > There is an adhesive called "Copydex" in the U.K., which is a latex > emulsion that becomes rubbery when the water component evaporates. "Low > tack" would be a polite way of describing it - the problem isan't > removing it, but getting it to stay on in the first place. I have used > it to stick paper copies of the artwork onto the front panel to use as > a drilling jig, then it can be peeled off easily. The latex tended to > wrap itself around the drill bit . . . followed by the paper label. Yes, we have similar adhesives ("rubber cement", etc.). There are actually a shitload of different adhesives available for different purposes. Usually the desire is for strong holding. But, some applications deliberately want low tack (e.g., in masking artwork) > I have used PVA adhesive, with much greater success. It wouldn't be any > use for permanent fixing on metal but the non-waterproof grade holds the > label long enough to allow drilling and can easily be removed with water > and a scouring pad. I used a spray adhesive to repair a headliner. Granted, it's not a heavy weight to support. *But*, it is "upside down" perpetually (so, gravity is trying to pull it off) and very large (a dozen square feet?). I will have to see if I can locate the remnants of the can as I am sure I didn't use all of it. >> I was planning on making a form onto which the label could be >> positioned "upside down". Then, mate the label-carrying form >> to the panel surface. > > That's a good idea if all your panels are the same size - no two of mine > are ever alike. I have some applications that are "multiples" and others that are singletons. If I constrain the singletons, then I may be able to make a "customizable form" that I can readily adapt to the needs of the instance. Note that it doesn't have to hold any significant weight so need not be "substantial" in composition; rather, just something that acts as "many hands" holding parts of the label until it is time to release ALL of it. >>> True, but i have known these acetate labels to survive nearly 5 years >>> outdoors on a south-facing wall (in English weather, which is not the >>> severest of UV tests). >> >> Yes, but no one is likely *poking* at it. > > My front panels get a bit of prodding and scuffing - but nothing too > violent. I opted for the 7 mil variety of laminating film as it adds a bit more armor (3 mil is just cosmetic; 5 mil is probably marginal; 10 mil is probably overkill) >>> The acetate sheet can be ripped off, so the solvent attacks the sticky >>> stuff fairly directly. >> >> I can try it. > > If you use White Spirit, the smell will be no worse than fresh paint and > will clear quite quickly. There is also a form of refined petroleum > ("White Gas") sold by Colemans for their camping stoves, that is more > flammable but doesn't leave any lingering smells at all. For personal use, I am not averse to mild solvents (I have nothing stronger than xylene and MEK on hand -- though I rarely progress beyond mineral spirits when looking to dissolve adhesives as some of the solvents are too aggressive against plastic surfaces -- or, will take the "patina" off). I tried "odorless mineral spirits", once, and found it hugely disappointing compared to "real" mineral spirits. >> I will try a spray adhesive instead of double-sided tape >> as that seems like it would be easier to address a large surface. >> E.g., when you reinstall a headliner, that's the approach taken. > > You might find the solvent attacks the print. Several thin layers, > sprayed from a distance, are preferable to one thick layer sprayed > closely. I need to find the leftovers, first, so I can make a test pass with it. I can visalize the can -- but not the WRITING on it! :< >> (this is why I prefer replacement >> for most items -- carry the "failed" unit back to the depot >> for analysis/repair but get the customer back up and running >> quickly. > > And doesn't depend on the serviceman having the skill and experience to > spot the cause that caused the cause of the fault. Exactly. Use him as an extension of more capable peoples' (based in the depot) limbs. And, the customer sees a quick turn-around -- instead of standing over the serviceman's shoulder wondering WHEN he will be done and *if* he will actually leave them with a functional system. >>> You can see a picture of the sort of results I have managed to obtain >>> at: >>> http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/DistortionMeter/Manual.pdf >> >> Do you precut the openings? Or, as you mentioned above, "burn" >> through the acetate once the label is affixed (less of an alignment >> problem, there)? > > After fixing the acetate sheet I burn them through with a soldering > iron, then trim up the flash with a rat-tailed file (file towards the > panel, never away from it). On that particular piece of equipment, I > may have cut around the meter hole with a knife because it is rather > large. A *pointed* Xacto knife isn't suitable for the whole task? Or, do you risk the cut "tearing"/"running" through the acetate to areas undesired?