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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1 ---
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 20:50:01 -0400
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On 4/2/2025 8:48 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 4/2/2025 4:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 4/2/2025 11:55 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/2/2025 9:14 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Mon, 31 Mar 2025 16:26:58 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 3/31/2025 2:10 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 31.mrt.2025 om 20:16 schreef olcott:
>>>>
>>>>>>> A simulating termination analyzer is always correct to abort the
>>>>>>> simulation and reject the input as non-halting when-so-ever this 
>>>>>>> input
>>>>>>> would otherwise prevent itself from halting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the input is halting, as proven by direct execution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something other than the input is halting.
>>>>> HHH1(DDD) shows the same behavior as the direct execution.
>>>>>    HHH(DDD) shows the behavior of the actual input.
>>>> Why are you not passing DDD as input? Why do you not call what you're
>>>> doing HHH(HHH(DDD))? What is the difference in what is passed to HHH1?
>>>>
>>>
>>> This seems to be above your level of technical competence.
>>>
>>> _DDD()
>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>
>>> Anyone understanding the above code where HHH
>>> emulates DDD according to the semantics of the
>>> x86 language knows that this DDD (not some
>>> other different DDD) cannot possibly reach its
>>> own final halt state.
>>
>> Category error.  The algorithm DDD and the algorithm HHH are fixed and 
>> immutable, so to say that "this DDD cannot possibly reach its own 
>> final state" implies that HHH varies but it does not.
>>
>> The only valid statements would be that either HHH *does* emulate DDD 
>> to a final state, or HHH *does not* emulate DDD to a final state.
>>
>> So which is it?
> 
> DDD emulated by HHH specifies recursive emulation.
> DDD emulated by HHH1 DOES NOT specify recursive emulation.
> 
> 
> *Simulating termination analyzer Principle*
> It is always correct for any simulating termination analyzer to stop 
> simulating and reject any input that would otherwise prevent its own 
> termination. 

In other words, HHH decides that non-halting is correct because 
replacing the code of HHH with an unconditional simulator and running 
HHH(DDD) will not halt.

Changing the input is not allowed.