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Path: ...!news.tomockey.net!news.samoylyk.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1 --- STA Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025 10:47:13 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 57 Message-ID: <vso2q1$2uaok$1@dont-email.me> References: <vrfuob$256og$1@dont-email.me> <vs9kb1$26cg5$2@dont-email.me> <vs9pni$27rl4$9@dont-email.me> <vs9r1b$28tqg$2@dont-email.me> <vs9t45$2f6n5$1@dont-email.me> <9f2ff3ab9b99a7bb6dfa0885f9757f810ce52e66@i2pn2.org> <vsaam4$2sfhq$1@dont-email.me> <vsbi7e$1hblk$1@dont-email.me> <vsc6qi$27lbo$2@dont-email.me> <8a3e7e93e6cad20b29d23405a0e6dbd497a492ac@i2pn2.org> <vscegq$2fv3s$2@dont-email.me> <26f33bb039fda7d28ae164cfc4d0f582d4698f31@i2pn2.org> <vsclsb$2n4jc$1@dont-email.me> <36a4c76730b23cf78ddde73c723116b5380973a1@i2pn2.org> <vsctnm$2ub5m$2@dont-email.me> <4285ea3219a2d5f2d6c52e84697fa4e3d3dc80cb@i2pn2.org> <vsd18m$379dn$1@dont-email.me> <vsdjff$3o5ff$1@dont-email.me> <vsem50$th5g$3@dont-email.me> <vsepbh$11dqg$1@dont-email.me> <vsf1b2$1a4fc$1@dont-email.me> <038ec0393503335f3bb71d4291c06e0133fc68f9@i2pn2.org> <vsjmks$26s7s$1@dont-email.me> <vsk0oe$2he20$1@dont-email.me> <vsknnf$378kj$2@dont-email.me> <vslib2$6sgk$1@dont-email.me> <vsn23e$1pot5$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:47:17 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="426aeba1ac60d3dc76fbc22d0a01babb"; logging-data="3091220"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18XA18i1E5nIh3C6FCohce+" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:r/+2Gym0sOuTHGzOVf4MPCL/r9A= Bytes: 4176 On 2025-04-03 22:29:00 +0000, olcott said: > On 4/3/2025 3:53 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >> Op 03.apr.2025 om 03:19 schreef olcott: >>> On 4/2/2025 1:47 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>> Op 02.apr.2025 om 17:55 schreef olcott: >>>>> On 4/2/2025 9:14 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>> Am Mon, 31 Mar 2025 16:26:58 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>> On 3/31/2025 2:10 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>> Op 31.mrt.2025 om 20:16 schreef olcott: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A simulating termination analyzer is always correct to abort the >>>>>>>>> simulation and reject the input as non-halting when-so-ever this input >>>>>>>>> would otherwise prevent itself from halting. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But the input is halting, as proven by direct execution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something other than the input is halting. >>>>>>> HHH1(DDD) shows the same behavior as the direct execution. >>>>>>> HHH(DDD) shows the behavior of the actual input. >>>>>> Why are you not passing DDD as input? Why do you not call what you're >>>>>> doing HHH(HHH(DDD))? What is the difference in what is passed to HHH1? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This seems to be above your level of technical competence. >>>>> >>>>> _DDD() >>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>> >>>>> Anyone understanding the above code where HHH >>>>> emulates DDD according to the semantics of the >>>>> x86 language knows that this DDD (not some >>>>> other different DDD) cannot possibly reach its >>>>> own final halt state. >>> >>>> Yes it fails to reach the end of the simulation of a program that >>>> according to the x86 semantics has an end as proven by direct execution. >>> >>> In other words you don't hardly know the x86 >>> language at all. >> >> I see, you have your own definitions for the x86 language. > > Any idiot can be a mindless naysayer. We already know. But can you be anything else? -- Mikko