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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Tariffs and bikes
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2025 08:20:15 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 4/4/2025 11:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/4/2025 10:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/4/2025 9:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2025 12:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You can have whatever opinion you like but not your own 
>>>> facts. 
>>>
>>> Heck, I thought it was fashionable to have "alternative 
>>> facts" if you don't like the look of normal ones! Wasn't 
>>> that made clear during Trump version 1?
>>>
>>>> USA has among the most steeply sloped tax regimes on 
>>>> earth, such that the top 1% of earners pay roughly half 
>>>> of all income tax.
>>>>
>>>> https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
>>>
>>> The USA also has some of the highest income and wealth 
>>> disparity of developed nations. Granted, not as bad as 
>>> many small 3rd world countries - but I think we should 
>>> not be striving to emulate those.
>>>
>>> https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/issues/economic- 
>>> justice/income- and-wealth-inequality/
>>>
>>> I'd say that means our tax structure is still 
>>> insufficiently progressive.
>>>
>>> And what should we be trying to achieve anyway? ISTM our 
>>> nation was founded on the idea of doing away with a 
>>> privileged class lording it over those purportedly of 
>>> less worth. Also the idea of everyone (well, as long as 
>>> their complexion wasn't too dark) getting an equal shot 
>>> at prosperity. If nothing else, those ideas, if 
>>> implemented, work toward keeping the masses content 
>>> enough that they don't literally rebel. Rebellions are 
>>> messy, unpredictable, and bad for bike shops.
>>>
>>> We now have a new privileged class, one that can rake in 
>>> millions per year and pay lower rates than struggling 
>>> middle Americans, in part because of clever deductions. 
>>> Remember Leona Helmsley? "Taxes are for little people."
>>>
>>> And of course, any money made over $170,000 per year is 
>>> free of Social Security duties. Because hey, one's third 
>>> mega- mansion is much more important than better food for 
>>> the family making $50,000 per year. Why should the ultra- 
>>> rich help to keep Social Security afloat?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The 'disparity' is a myth in that it counts only taxable 
>> earnings, ignoring that fully half the country pays no 
>> income tax.  Many of those receive 'negative tax' payments 
>> and in fact dos very well on relief, much better than many 
>> working people.
> 
> "The disparity is a myth"??  The GINI index for the U.S. is 
> higher (worse) than for Britain, Italy, France, Austria, 
> Canada, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Albania, Croatia, etc. 
> etc. etc. Yes, it's not as bad as South Africa, Mexico, 
> Venezuela, Columbia, but it's hardly a myth.
> 
>>
>> Regarding wealthy citizens, we do indeed have some 
>> inherited wealth but almost all the top earners are self 
>> made ...
> 
> That's irrelevant. I was not restricting my comments to 
> inherited wealth. I'm basically saying that our current laws 
> and tax structures favor the wealthy and especially the very 
> wealthy. That includes corporations, for which it's not that 
> unusual to pay next to zero federal taxes. Tax shelters are 
> available to those with tons of money. Helmsley's "little 
> people" have no access to that trickery.
> 
>> Your snarky racism comment is ridiculous.
> 
> I said a big idea for the new nation of the U.S. was that 
> everyone should get an equal shot if their skin wasn't too 
> dark. Did you somehow forget that black slavery existed back 
> then? Slaves did not get an equal shot.
> 
> Yes, I know you (especially you!) can come up with anecdotes 
> about modern black guys who have gotten rich. But surely 
> even you don't think it's as likely for a young black guy to 
> succeed as it is for a young white guy.
> 
>> There are 224 times more black millionaires in USA than 
>> the top 19 countries of Africa combined.
>>
>> Go stick your racism somewhere else.
> 
> I was not comparing black Americans to black Africans. I was 
> comparing black Americans to white Americans. And in my 
> original statement, I was comparing those groups in 1776.
> 
> 

It simply is not true. Full stop. Not true.

'Income disparity' is a classic blatant example of 'garbage 
in, garbage out.  By utterly ignoring our lavish 
transfer/benefits systems, the appearance of poverty greatly 
exceeds poverty.

As with so many topics discussed here, one would do well to 
ask what is counted and who is counting.

For readers who did not pursue my previous link, here's a 
shorter simpler version:

https://www.cato.org/study/myth-american-income-inequality

And regarding racism, why do legal immigrant Nigerians, 
being as dark or darker than US citizens grouped as black, 
do so well here?  And Nigerians are not unique (I was made 
aware of their success by a Nigerian immigrant engineer of 
my acquaintance) with above average incomes for legal 
immigrant Ghanians, Jamaicans and others, most voluminously 
Indians.

They all live in the same world as you, finding employment, 
housing and so on with all the myriad daily interactions as 
you while 'swimming in the same pool' as it were.  If 
there's 'structural racism' the outcomes don't show it.

Then again I mentioned recently that I was in North Lawndale 
(Chicago) regularly some years ago.  The guys on the corner 
drinking cheap liquor from a bagged pint while shooing dice 
and generally killing time claimed 'the man' kept them down. 
They actually believed that.

Or as my favorite black millionaire from humble roots often 
notes, "Hard work wins."

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971