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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Tariffs and bikes
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2025 15:54:01 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 4/5/2025 2:16 PM, Shadow wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 08:20:15 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/4/2025 11:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/4/2025 10:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/2025 9:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2025 12:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can have whatever opinion you like but not your own
>>>>>> facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heck, I thought it was fashionable to have "alternative
>>>>> facts" if you don't like the look of normal ones! Wasn't
>>>>> that made clear during Trump version 1?
>>>>>
>>>>>> USA has among the most steeply sloped tax regimes on
>>>>>> earth, such that the top 1% of earners pay roughly half
>>>>>> of all income tax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
>>>>>
>>>>> The USA also has some of the highest income and wealth
>>>>> disparity of developed nations. Granted, not as bad as
>>>>> many small 3rd world countries - but I think we should
>>>>> not be striving to emulate those.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/issues/economic-
>>>>> justice/income- and-wealth-inequality/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say that means our tax structure is still
>>>>> insufficiently progressive.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what should we be trying to achieve anyway? ISTM our
>>>>> nation was founded on the idea of doing away with a
>>>>> privileged class lording it over those purportedly of
>>>>> less worth. Also the idea of everyone (well, as long as
>>>>> their complexion wasn't too dark) getting an equal shot
>>>>> at prosperity. If nothing else, those ideas, if
>>>>> implemented, work toward keeping the masses content
>>>>> enough that they don't literally rebel. Rebellions are
>>>>> messy, unpredictable, and bad for bike shops.
>>>>>
>>>>> We now have a new privileged class, one that can rake in
>>>>> millions per year and pay lower rates than struggling
>>>>> middle Americans, in part because of clever deductions.
>>>>> Remember Leona Helmsley? "Taxes are for little people."
>>>>>
>>>>> And of course, any money made over $170,000 per year is
>>>>> free of Social Security duties. Because hey, one's third
>>>>> mega- mansion is much more important than better food for
>>>>> the family making $50,000 per year. Why should the ultra-
>>>>> rich help to keep Social Security afloat?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 'disparity' is a myth in that it counts only taxable
>>>> earnings, ignoring that fully half the country pays no
>>>> income tax.  Many of those receive 'negative tax' payments
>>>> and in fact dos very well on relief, much better than many
>>>> working people.
>>>
>>> "The disparity is a myth"??  The GINI index for the U.S. is
>>> higher (worse) than for Britain, Italy, France, Austria,
>>> Canada, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Albania, Croatia, etc.
>>> etc. etc. Yes, it's not as bad as South Africa, Mexico,
>>> Venezuela, Columbia, but it's hardly a myth.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding wealthy citizens, we do indeed have some
>>>> inherited wealth but almost all the top earners are self
>>>> made ...
>>>
>>> That's irrelevant. I was not restricting my comments to
>>> inherited wealth. I'm basically saying that our current laws
>>> and tax structures favor the wealthy and especially the very
>>> wealthy. That includes corporations, for which it's not that
>>> unusual to pay next to zero federal taxes. Tax shelters are
>>> available to those with tons of money. Helmsley's "little
>>> people" have no access to that trickery.
>>>
>>>> Your snarky racism comment is ridiculous.
>>>
>>> I said a big idea for the new nation of the U.S. was that
>>> everyone should get an equal shot if their skin wasn't too
>>> dark. Did you somehow forget that black slavery existed back
>>> then? Slaves did not get an equal shot.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know you (especially you!) can come up with anecdotes
>>> about modern black guys who have gotten rich. But surely
>>> even you don't think it's as likely for a young black guy to
>>> succeed as it is for a young white guy.
>>>
>>>> There are 224 times more black millionaires in USA than
>>>> the top 19 countries of Africa combined.
>>>>
>>>> Go stick your racism somewhere else.
>>>
>>> I was not comparing black Americans to black Africans. I was
>>> comparing black Americans to white Americans. And in my
>>> original statement, I was comparing those groups in 1776.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It simply is not true. Full stop. Not true.
>>
>> 'Income disparity' is a classic blatant example of 'garbage
>> in, garbage out.  By utterly ignoring our lavish
>> transfer/benefits systems, the appearance of poverty greatly
>> exceeds poverty.
>>
>> As with so many topics discussed here, one would do well to
>> ask what is counted and who is counting.
>>
>> For readers who did not pursue my previous link, here's a
>> shorter simpler version:
>>
>> https://www.cato.org/study/myth-american-income-inequality
> 
> Cato? Seriously?
> That's a far right pro tax exemption (only for billionaires) think
> tank....
> LOL
> 
> PS It's non profit because the bribes it receives are distributed
> equally between its "reporters". They call it "expenses".
> 	[]'s
> 
>>
>> And regarding racism, why do legal immigrant Nigerians,
>> being as dark or darker than US citizens grouped as black,
>> do so well here?  And Nigerians are not unique (I was made
>> aware of their success by a Nigerian immigrant engineer of
>> my acquaintance) with above average incomes for legal
>> immigrant Ghanians, Jamaicans and others, most voluminously
>> Indians.
>>
>> They all live in the same world as you, finding employment,
>> housing and so on with all the myriad daily interactions as
>> you while 'swimming in the same pool' as it were.  If
>> there's 'structural racism' the outcomes don't show it.
>>
>> Then again I mentioned recently that I was in North Lawndale
>> (Chicago) regularly some years ago.  The guys on the corner
>> drinking cheap liquor from a bagged pint while shooing dice
>> and generally killing time claimed 'the man' kept them down.
>> They actually believed that.
>>
>> Or as my favorite black millionaire from humble roots often
>> notes, "Hard work wins."

I have proudly supported and contributed to Cato Institute 
for over 30 years. Aside from their newish web presence they 
are a major publisher as well, which is how I first metthem:

https://www.cato.org/search/category/books

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971