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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Tariffs and bikes Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2025 08:03:05 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 170 Message-ID: <vstqhq$27p9l$10@dont-email.me> References: <vsn7f2$1v127$1@dont-email.me> <cmtvujp4du2ueafd153951ipsg86rkf38e@4ax.com> <vsp0k4$3qc5f$2@dont-email.me> <vsp174$3nmvp$1@dont-email.me> <vsq314$u1ot$2@dont-email.me> <vsq4jk$1047i$1@dont-email.me> <vsqacl$19q77$2@dont-email.me> <vsramd$28n8r$2@dont-email.me> <vsrml6$2ned8$1@dont-email.me> <vsrrbd$2rv7o$2@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2025 14:03:07 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a234526dc6533b54861bf1ed0d8d1618"; logging-data="2352437"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+CEeNUS3eQf4puJyKJAkY5Dulj/3VGHSM=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:83EhrdNW0zNa6aX9wFvxDKO4JCc= In-Reply-To: <vsrrbd$2rv7o$2@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 9480 On 4/5/2025 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote: > On 4/5/2025 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >> On 4/5/2025 9:20 AM, AMuzi wrote: >>> On 4/4/2025 11:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>> On 4/4/2025 10:30 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>> On 4/4/2025 9:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>> On 4/4/2025 12:26 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can have whatever opinion you like but not your own facts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Heck, I thought it was fashionable to have "alternative facts" if >>>>>> you don't like the look of normal ones! Wasn't that made clear >>>>>> during Trump version 1? >>>>>> >>>>>>> USA has among the most steeply sloped tax regimes on earth, such >>>>>>> that the top 1% of earners pay roughly half of all income tax. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most- income-tax/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The USA also has some of the highest income and wealth disparity >>>>>> of developed nations. Granted, not as bad as many small 3rd world >>>>>> countries - but I think we should not be striving to emulate those. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/issues/economic- justice/ >>>>>> income- and-wealth-inequality/ >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd say that means our tax structure is still insufficiently >>>>>> progressive. >>>>>> >>>>>> And what should we be trying to achieve anyway? ISTM our nation >>>>>> was founded on the idea of doing away with a privileged class >>>>>> lording it over those purportedly of less worth. Also the idea of >>>>>> everyone (well, as long as their complexion wasn't too dark) >>>>>> getting an equal shot at prosperity. If nothing else, those ideas, >>>>>> if implemented, work toward keeping the masses content enough that >>>>>> they don't literally rebel. Rebellions are messy, unpredictable, >>>>>> and bad for bike shops. >>>>>> >>>>>> We now have a new privileged class, one that can rake in millions >>>>>> per year and pay lower rates than struggling middle Americans, in >>>>>> part because of clever deductions. Remember Leona Helmsley? "Taxes >>>>>> are for little people." >>>>>> >>>>>> And of course, any money made over $170,000 per year is free of >>>>>> Social Security duties. Because hey, one's third mega- mansion is >>>>>> much more important than better food for the family making $50,000 >>>>>> per year. Why should the ultra- rich help to keep Social Security >>>>>> afloat? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The 'disparity' is a myth in that it counts only taxable earnings, >>>>> ignoring that fully half the country pays no income tax. Many of >>>>> those receive 'negative tax' payments and in fact dos very well on >>>>> relief, much better than many working people. >>>> >>>> "The disparity is a myth"?? The GINI index for the U.S. is higher >>>> (worse) than for Britain, Italy, France, Austria, Canada, Australia, >>>> Ireland, Sweden, Albania, Croatia, etc. etc. etc. Yes, it's not as >>>> bad as South Africa, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, but it's hardly a >>>> myth. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regarding wealthy citizens, we do indeed have some inherited wealth >>>>> but almost all the top earners are self made ... >>>> >>>> That's irrelevant. I was not restricting my comments to inherited >>>> wealth. I'm basically saying that our current laws and tax >>>> structures favor the wealthy and especially the very wealthy. That >>>> includes corporations, for which it's not that unusual to pay next >>>> to zero federal taxes. Tax shelters are available to those with tons >>>> of money. Helmsley's "little people" have no access to that trickery. >>>> >>>>> Your snarky racism comment is ridiculous. >>>> >>>> I said a big idea for the new nation of the U.S. was that everyone >>>> should get an equal shot if their skin wasn't too dark. Did you >>>> somehow forget that black slavery existed back then? Slaves did not >>>> get an equal shot. >>>> >>>> Yes, I know you (especially you!) can come up with anecdotes about >>>> modern black guys who have gotten rich. But surely even you don't >>>> think it's as likely for a young black guy to succeed as it is for a >>>> young white guy. >>>> >>>>> There are 224 times more black millionaires in USA than the top 19 >>>>> countries of Africa combined. >>>>> >>>>> Go stick your racism somewhere else. >>>> >>>> I was not comparing black Americans to black Africans. I was >>>> comparing black Americans to white Americans. And in my original >>>> statement, I was comparing those groups in 1776. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> It simply is not true. Full stop. Not true. >> >> It is not true that black Americans in 1776 suffered disadvantages >> compared to white Americans? That is absolutely senseless. >> >>> 'Income disparity' is a classic blatant example of 'garbage in, >>> garbage out. By utterly ignoring our lavish transfer/benefits >>> systems, the appearance of poverty greatly exceeds poverty. >>> >>> As with so many topics discussed here, one would do well to ask what >>> is counted and who is counting. >>> > For readers who did not pursue my previous link, here's a shorter >>> simpler version: >>> >>> https://www.cato.org/study/myth-american-income-inequality >> >> :-) Ah yes, "one would do well to ask ... who is counting." So we >> should ignore the countless American and world-wide economic >> institutions which all accept recognized standards for inequality >> measurements, and rank America's GINI index as being worse than all >> similar modern nations. Instead we should pay attention to the >> outlier, the hyper-libertarian Cato institute. >> >>> And regarding racism, why do legal immigrant Nigerians, being as dark >>> or darker than US citizens grouped as black, do so well here? >> >> Yes, there are certainly cultural differences among various sub- >> cultures. Japanese and Chinese tend to do better here by various >> measurements than average white Americans. IIRC, white Jewish >> Americans do better, on average, than other whites. That does not mean >> that racism against American blacks is gone, and that blacks don't >> suffer from its current and historical effects. >> >> When I lived down south, I witnessed my black co-workers and later my >> black students getting mocked behind their backs or to their faces. I >> remember our two neighbors proudly going off to hear Lester Maddox >> speak, telling us "He's going to put those niggers back in their >> place." I can't believe those attitudes didn't lead to disadvantages >> for them. >> >> One thing that I learned fairly recently: My father bought his first >> house with help from the GI Bill. My wife and I did the same many >> years later. Buying a home and having its value appreciate, as they >> generally do, was an important contributor toward increasing family >> wealth. But after WW2, black servicemen had much more trouble taking >> advantage of the GI Bill. That put a great damper on black family's >> equity growth, and the historic effects persist. >> >>> Or as my favorite black millionaire from humble roots often notes, >>> "Hard work wins." >> >> It's more likely to "win" if you have good connections, good >> education, access to capital, etc. and if you're not rejected for a >> job by being the wrong color. >> >> > > > Nearly 60 years ago I was shocked and offended at separate water > fountains. We're roughly of the same age so I know what you meant. > > That was long long ago. Fortunately. > And yet.... https://michiganadvance.com/2024/07/22/we-love-hitler-we-love-trump-white-supremacists-march-through-howell/ https://www.brennancenter.org/events/do-police-care-about-white-supremacist-violence https://www.ctpublic.org/2025-01-10/nh-supreme-court-sides-with-white-supremacist-group-over-highway-banner-in-portsmouth https://www.brennancenter.org/events/do-police-care-about-white-supremacist-violence https://www.wyomingpublicmedia.org/politics-government/2025-01-08/u-s-attorneys-office-yellowstone-gunman-espoused-white-supremacist-views