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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Low distortion sinewave oscillator without big capacitor.
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2025 23:40:45 +1000
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On 6/04/2025 2:12 am, JM wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 23:55:11 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> "JM" <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uop0vjp3d13t441ujfboi5aeeg08anm1je@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 16:29:27 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "JM" <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> wrote in message news:add0vjdh2gcma0n9pfunq76n04cfbkhtnj@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 14:25:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:vsnufh$2ou7j$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> On 4/04/2025 11:33 am, JM wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 19:25:33 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
>>>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "JM" <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> wrote in message news:qq8tujlpciqc2jrd0ibljmjr9pd37ip6hi@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 14:54:56 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
>>>>>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not long ago JM posted a 1KHz sinewave oscillator with very low distortion.
>>>>>>>>>>> It used a 470uF non polarized capacitor which in practice would probably be made from two 1000uF capacitors.
>>>>>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that but I wanted to see whether I could make a working circuit without needing such a large
>>>>>>>>>>> capacitor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You will need to adjust the feedback to suit.  Start with a -5 or -6
>>>>>>>> gain block after the integrator and adjust it's gain until the startup
>>>>>>>> is clean (no saturation).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's my version of John May's variation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, that works but only 120dB down at 4KHz.
>>>>>> I put the damping resistor back to 47k since I don't care what happens during the first few seonds as long as it happens.
>>>>>> If it's necessary to wait one minute for the purest tone, that's fine with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linewraps are going to be a problem - delete all "\n" from the last few lines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't want to remove \n just remove the wraps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BCM61B does not have two independent transistors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you probably want BCM847BS which has two independent matched transistors and a very low price at digikey, so may as well use
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> of them as shown below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I took the model from
>>>>>> https://github.com/peteut/spice-models/blob/master/nxp/complex_discretes/complex_discretes.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It should only be necessary to unwrap the last line of the following.
>>>>>> Don't remove \n just remove the wraps, you may need to use a horizontal scroll bar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Version 4.1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best to just offset the integrator output so the amplitude is brought
>>>>> under control sooner.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow. That has much lower distortion too.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you just replace Q1,2 duals with a simple long tailed pair I think
>>> you will get better performance.
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand how the multiplier could be implemented with just a long tailed pair.
>>
> 
> Just modulate the tail current and select how much to steer to the
> output by directly driving the bases rather than indirectly as in your
> circuit.  The following link shows one example topology, and a four
> quadrant differential I/O version.  Compare the linearity of each of
> them.
> 
> https://1drv.ms/u/c/1af24d72a509cd48/EWVCUG7-jFJMu7-01VczCRcBzEC9JPHrV45x7TOunN90Gg?e=GXbvX5
> 
> It could be used as shown here.
 >
> https://1drv.ms/u/c/1af24d72a509cd48/EVmMVrvUD15GutoR5nCJ7QEBSeZsHWpHudqR0b8XtTLMLw?e=HIV74I

As I've already said, I like it. I've played with it a bit.

The ON-Semiconductor NSS40301MDR2G NPN dual comes with a 2mV guaranteed 
maximum difference in base-emitter voltages (at the same emitter 
current). Edward Rawde's Nexperia BCM61B dual part has matched current 
gain, but no guarantee on the Vbe. The Nexperia BCM847BS does offer 2mV 
base-emitter matching, and would presumably work just as well.

Putting in the ON-Semiconductor dual means that your gain control 
circuit doesn't have to waste output swing coping with part-to-part 
variation.

I've added a cascode transistor (Q1, it should be Q4) to minimise any 
Early effect distortion.

I've snipped out the op amp driving the base of Q3. Once you'd gone 
AC-coupled, it wasn't doing anything useful.

And I've put a string of eight diodes in series with R10. They nominally 
compensate for the temperature dependence introduced by the four 
rectifier diodes D2, D12, D13 and D14. In this version of the circuit 
the rectifiers knock about 0.6 volts off a sine wave that peaks at 3.8V, 
about a quarter of the 15V rail. I haven't run the numbers to fix the 
best number of diodes, but something between six and eight looks okay.

The harmonics aren't great - most of them are about 90dB below the 
fundamental, but the seventh is only 85dB down.

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