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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Tariffs and bikes
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2025 09:08:35 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 4/5/2025 8:02 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 10:16:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/5/2025 9:37 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 08:35:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/5/2025 4:43 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 04:19:45 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 00:08:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/4/2025 10:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/4/2025 9:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/4/2025 12:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can have whatever opinion you like but not your own facts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, I thought it was fashionable to have "alternative facts" if you
>>>>>>>>> don't like the look of normal ones! Wasn't that made clear during
>>>>>>>>> Trump version 1?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> USA has among the most steeply sloped tax regimes on earth, such that
>>>>>>>>>> the top 1% of earners pay roughly half of all income tax.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most-income-tax/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The USA also has some of the highest income and wealth disparity of
>>>>>>>>> developed nations. Granted, not as bad as many small 3rd world
>>>>>>>>> countries - but I think we should not be striving to emulate those.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/issues/economic- justice/income-
>>>>>>>>> and-wealth-inequality/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd say that means our tax structure is still insufficiently progressive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And what should we be trying to achieve anyway? ISTM our nation was
>>>>>>>>> founded on the idea of doing away with a privileged class lording it
>>>>>>>>> over those purportedly of less worth. Also the idea of everyone (well,
>>>>>>>>> as long as their complexion wasn't too dark) getting an equal shot at
>>>>>>>>> prosperity. If nothing else, those ideas, if implemented, work toward
>>>>>>>>> keeping the masses content enough that they don't literally rebel.
>>>>>>>>> Rebellions are messy, unpredictable, and bad for bike shops.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We now have a new privileged class, one that can rake in millions per
>>>>>>>>> year and pay lower rates than struggling middle Americans, in part
>>>>>>>>> because of clever deductions. Remember Leona Helmsley? "Taxes are for
>>>>>>>>> little people."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And of course, any money made over $170,000 per year is free of Social
>>>>>>>>> Security duties. Because hey, one's third mega- mansion is much more
>>>>>>>>> important than better food for the family making $50,000 per year. Why
>>>>>>>>> should the ultra-rich help to keep Social Security afloat?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 'disparity' is a myth in that it counts only taxable earnings,
>>>>>>>> ignoring that fully half the country pays no income tax.  Many of those
>>>>>>>> receive 'negative tax' payments and in fact dos very well on relief,
>>>>>>>> much better than many working people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The disparity is a myth"??  The GINI index for the U.S. is higher
>>>>>>> (worse) than for Britain, Italy, France, Austria, Canada, Australia,
>>>>>>> Ireland, Sweden, Albania, Croatia, etc. etc. etc. Yes, it's not as bad
>>>>>>> as South Africa, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, but it's hardly a myth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding wealthy citizens, we do indeed have some inherited wealth but
>>>>>>>> almost all the top earners are self made ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's irrelevant. I was not restricting my comments to inherited
>>>>>>> wealth. I'm basically saying that our current laws and tax structures
>>>>>>> favor the wealthy and especially the very wealthy. That includes
>>>>>>> corporations, for which it's not that unusual to pay next to zero
>>>>>>> federal taxes. Tax shelters are available to those with tons of money.
>>>>>>> Helmsley's "little people" have no access to that trickery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your snarky racism comment is ridiculous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I said a big idea for the new nation of the U.S. was that everyone
>>>>>>> should get an equal shot if their skin wasn't too dark. Did you somehow
>>>>>>> forget that black slavery existed back then? Slaves did not get an equal
>>>>>>> shot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I know you (especially you!) can come up with anecdotes about
>>>>>>> modern black guys who have gotten rich. But surely even you don't think
>>>>>>> it's as likely for a young black guy to succeed as it is for a young
>>>>>>> white guy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are 224 times more black millionaires in USA than the top 19
>>>>>>>> countries of Africa combined.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go stick your racism somewhere else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not comparing black Americans to black Africans. I was comparing
>>>>>>> black Americans to white Americans. And in my original statement, I was
>>>>>>> comparing those groups in 1776.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Leftists racism nonsense is not working any more as more and more
>>>>>> non-white people walk away from the Democrat Party. Perhaps they
>>>>>> should stop using it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Re Frank's post above... in early  America George Washington, a 3rd
>>>>> generation slave owner,  assumed ownership of his first 10 slaves when
>>>>> he was 11 years old. At his death there were 317 slaves  at Mount
>>>>> Vernon.
>>>>
>>>> True although most were acquired at his marriage.
>>>>
>>>> Odd though that people do harp on him, and on Thomas
>>>> Jefferson as well, while exempting John Adams and Benjamin
>>>> Franklin from that line of conversation.
>>>>
>>>> And the same people have no time or attention for today's
>>>> open slave markets across the Gulf region, into Sudan and
>>>> now, with the sudden absence of French special forces,
>>>> across the Sahel as the jihadis take over.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention massive scale vivisection of political
>>>> prisoners by the CCP for their international organ selling
>>>> programs.  Oh no, not at all important when bashing Mr
>>>> Washington is so entertaining.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is difficult to understand how telling the truth is "bashing". Or
>>> has the truth become a sin in modern America?
>>>
>>> As Winston Churchill (and others )  said, “Those that fail to learn
>>> from history are doomed to repeat it.”
>>
>> It's true. We all have read multiple contemporary accounts.
>> No reasonable person doubts that truth.
>>
>> When incessant harping on that, with no mention of his other
>> actions over a long life (and not all exemplary, for example
>> that French and Indian War incident) it may well be called
>> bashing. YVVM.
>>
>> Similarly my criticism of the modern education racket is
>> that young people can recount all of our country's sins,
>> which were real, but none of the good we have done.
> 
> Not to start another helmet or gun fight but the bad things stick
> right out in front of "God and Everyone" - long series of "wars" to
> deprive the original owners of their land for example,  what are the
> "good things"?
> 

Really?  How about Mr Hoover's Belgian Relief (during the 
Wilson administration) which extended across Europe and 
saved millions of lives.

https://www.historynet.com/the-man-of-force-who-saved-belgium/

And a few thousand other examples.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971