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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Tariffs and bikes
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2025 09:28:58 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 4/6/2025 7:03 AM, zen cycle wrote:
> On 4/5/2025 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/5/2025 11:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2025 9:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 4/4/2025 11:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 4/4/2025 10:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/4/2025 9:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/4/2025 12:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can have whatever opinion you like but not your 
>>>>>>>> own facts. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heck, I thought it was fashionable to have 
>>>>>>> "alternative facts" if you don't like the look of 
>>>>>>> normal ones! Wasn't that made clear during Trump 
>>>>>>> version 1?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> USA has among the most steeply sloped tax regimes on 
>>>>>>>> earth, such that the top 1% of earners pay roughly 
>>>>>>>> half of all income tax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://usafacts.org/articles/who-pays-the-most- 
>>>>>>>> income-tax/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The USA also has some of the highest income and 
>>>>>>> wealth disparity of developed nations. Granted, not 
>>>>>>> as bad as many small 3rd world countries - but I 
>>>>>>> think we should not be striving to emulate those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/issues/economic- 
>>>>>>> justice/ income- and-wealth-inequality/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd say that means our tax structure is still 
>>>>>>> insufficiently progressive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what should we be trying to achieve anyway? ISTM 
>>>>>>> our nation was founded on the idea of doing away with 
>>>>>>> a privileged class lording it over those purportedly 
>>>>>>> of less worth. Also the idea of everyone (well, as 
>>>>>>> long as their complexion wasn't too dark) getting an 
>>>>>>> equal shot at prosperity. If nothing else, those 
>>>>>>> ideas, if implemented, work toward keeping the masses 
>>>>>>> content enough that they don't literally rebel. 
>>>>>>> Rebellions are messy, unpredictable, and bad for bike 
>>>>>>> shops.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We now have a new privileged class, one that can rake 
>>>>>>> in millions per year and pay lower rates than 
>>>>>>> struggling middle Americans, in part because of 
>>>>>>> clever deductions. Remember Leona Helmsley? "Taxes 
>>>>>>> are for little people."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And of course, any money made over $170,000 per year 
>>>>>>> is free of Social Security duties. Because hey, one's 
>>>>>>> third mega- mansion is much more important than 
>>>>>>> better food for the family making $50,000 per year. 
>>>>>>> Why should the ultra- rich help to keep Social 
>>>>>>> Security afloat?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 'disparity' is a myth in that it counts only 
>>>>>> taxable earnings, ignoring that fully half the country 
>>>>>> pays no income tax.  Many of those receive 'negative 
>>>>>> tax' payments and in fact dos very well on relief, 
>>>>>> much better than many working people.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The disparity is a myth"??  The GINI index for the 
>>>>> U.S. is higher (worse) than for Britain, Italy, France, 
>>>>> Austria, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Albania, 
>>>>> Croatia, etc. etc. etc. Yes, it's not as bad as South 
>>>>> Africa, Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, but it's hardly a 
>>>>> myth.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding wealthy citizens, we do indeed have some 
>>>>>> inherited wealth but almost all the top earners are 
>>>>>> self made ...
>>>>>
>>>>> That's irrelevant. I was not restricting my comments to 
>>>>> inherited wealth. I'm basically saying that our current 
>>>>> laws and tax structures favor the wealthy and 
>>>>> especially the very wealthy. That includes 
>>>>> corporations, for which it's not that unusual to pay 
>>>>> next to zero federal taxes. Tax shelters are available 
>>>>> to those with tons of money. Helmsley's "little people" 
>>>>> have no access to that trickery.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your snarky racism comment is ridiculous.
>>>>>
>>>>> I said a big idea for the new nation of the U.S. was 
>>>>> that everyone should get an equal shot if their skin 
>>>>> wasn't too dark. Did you somehow forget that black 
>>>>> slavery existed back then? Slaves did not get an equal 
>>>>> shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know you (especially you!) can come up with 
>>>>> anecdotes about modern black guys who have gotten rich. 
>>>>> But surely even you don't think it's as likely for a 
>>>>> young black guy to succeed as it is for a young white guy.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are 224 times more black millionaires in USA 
>>>>>> than the top 19 countries of Africa combined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go stick your racism somewhere else.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not comparing black Americans to black Africans. 
>>>>> I was comparing black Americans to white Americans. And 
>>>>> in my original statement, I was comparing those groups 
>>>>> in 1776.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It simply is not true. Full stop. Not true.
>>>
>>> It is not true that black Americans in 1776 suffered 
>>> disadvantages compared to white Americans? That is 
>>> absolutely senseless.
>>>
>>>> 'Income disparity' is a classic blatant example of 
>>>> 'garbage in, garbage out.  By utterly ignoring our 
>>>> lavish transfer/benefits systems, the appearance of 
>>>> poverty greatly exceeds poverty.
>>>>
>>>> As with so many topics discussed here, one would do well 
>>>> to ask what is counted and who is counting.
>>>> > For readers who did not pursue my previous link, 
>>>> here's a shorter
>>>> simpler version:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cato.org/study/myth-american-income-inequality
>>>
>>> :-) Ah yes, "one would do well to ask ... who is 
>>> counting." So we should ignore the countless American and 
>>> world-wide economic institutions which all accept 
>>> recognized standards for inequality measurements, and 
>>> rank America's GINI index as being worse than all similar 
>>> modern nations. Instead we should pay attention to the 
>>> outlier, the hyper-libertarian Cato institute.
>>>
>>>> And regarding racism, why do legal immigrant Nigerians, 
>>>> being as dark or darker than US citizens grouped as 
>>>> black, do so well here? 
>>>
>>> Yes, there are certainly cultural differences among 
>>> various sub- cultures. Japanese and Chinese tend to do 
>>> better here by various measurements than average white 
>>> Americans. IIRC, white Jewish Americans do better, on 
>>> average, than other whites. That does not mean that 
>>> racism against American blacks is gone, and that blacks 
>>> don't suffer from its current and historical effects.
>>>
>>> When I lived down south, I witnessed my black co-workers 
>>> and later my black students getting mocked behind their 
>>> backs or to their faces. I remember our two neighbors 
>>> proudly going off to hear Lester Maddox speak, telling us 
>>> "He's going to put those niggers back in their place." I 
>>> can't believe those attitudes didn't lead to 
>>> disadvantages for them.
>>>
>>> One thing that I learned fairly recently: My father 
>>> bought his first house with help from the GI Bill. My 
>>> wife and I did the same many years later. Buying a home 
>>> and having its value appreciate, as they generally do, 
>>> was an important contributor toward increasing family 
>>> wealth. But after WW2, black servicemen had much more 
>>> trouble taking advantage of the GI Bill. That put a great 
>>> damper on black family's equity growth, and the historic 
>>> effects persist.
>>>
>>>> Or as my favorite black millionaire from humble roots 
>>>> often notes, "Hard work wins."
>>>
>>> It's more likely to "win" if you have good connections, 
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