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From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Beyond the pale... (Was: do { quit; } else { })
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2025 18:39:03 +0200
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On 07/04/2025 18:08, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <vsu5dj$19k7e$1@dont-email.me>,
> David Brown  <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> ...
>>> The language he uses in this thread is just beyond the pale (*) in terms of
>>> rudeness and non-civility.  If his target was anyone else (and especially
>>> if it was an old regular), we'd probably have 20 posts already condemning
>>> his language.
>>>
>>> (*) I think that's the right spelling - for a phrase I've only heard and
>>> have never seen written down.  Or is it "pail" ?
>>>
>>
>> It's even more off-topic, but I like to answer questions when asked -
>> yes, you are correct that it is "pale", from an old word for post or
>> fence (with similar etymology to "post", as in "wooden post").  Thus
>> "beyond the pale" is outside the borders or boundaries of your little
>> bit of civilisation.
> 
> Thanks.  That is useful to know.
> 
> But then I wonder if there is any connection between the word "pale"
> meaning "post" and its modern meaning (as in "A Whiter Shade of Pale").
> 

"pale" meaning "post" stretches back (via Old French) to the Latin 
"palus" (meaning "wooden post"), and is seen in modern English in words 
like "pallet".

"pale" meaning "light-coloured" or "white" also comes to English from 
Latin via Old French, but the Latin word was "pallidus".

The two Latin roots appear to come from different Proto-Indo-European 
words (meaning "to fasten" and "burnt" or "ashen"), but PIE roots are 
always somewhat speculative.

It's always conceivable that there was some crossover or mixups in 
meanings as the two different words coalesced in English, but I don't 
know of any.  It seems more likely that it is just a coincidental 
homonym, of which there are countless examples in English.

And now I will try to resist the temptation to be drawn more off-topic, 
and leave the etymology there.