Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Electric bicycles, social policy & culture
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:43:42 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <vtjafc$1iq6k$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vt8qgl$3ambr$1@dont-email.me> <vt8sar$3atpj$2@dont-email.me>
 <diapvjd67g3rpgoij8lotr4876fct20b2o@4ax.com> <vtja31$1ht18$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2025 17:43:41 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2c47c3f0382ac56ae64c13b39321e7a0";
	logging-data="1665236"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1845zESsrOcltWJgMMAtr94"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:kdklYJhoJ2oa27RpCUqkRNnJ2Ec=
In-Reply-To: <vtja31$1ht18$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 4244

On 4/14/2025 10:37 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/14/2025 2:52 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:40:59 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/are-e-bikes-a-godsend- 
>>>> or-the-road-to-
>>>> perdition-an-amish-community-is-torn/ar-AA1CAple
>>>
>>> A couple remarks:
>> ...
>>
>>> Holmes County, Ohio is quite hilly. We did a weekend 
>>> there, riding
>>> tandems with our best friends. One little side road 
>>> marked the first
>>> time we ever had to dismount and walk a hill despite our 
>>> tandem's low
>>> gearing. I can see why the Amish there would be motivated 
>>> to accept
>>> electric assist.
>>
>> Sure. Who wouldn't?   But how many people of those who 
>> switched from a
>> bicycle to a motorized bike during the last decade are 
>> Amish people?
>> Wikipedia tells me that only 0.12% of the US population 
>> are Amish, so as
>> a first guess I'd expect > 99% of e-bike users not to be 
>> Amish.
> 
> I think the Amish are always going to be a tiny, tiny 
> percentage of almost any phenomenon. It's sort of the point 
> of their chosen existence, to be a people apart from the norm.
> 
>>> Finally, while I'll never be Amish, I can admire that a 
>>> culture has
>>> priorities other than "How much shit can we buy before we 
>>> die?"
>>> Community is very important to the Amish, and community 
>>> is a good thing.
>>
>> But switching from bicycles to motorized bikes isn't a 
>> good thing in
>> general, especially not in a country known for their 
>> obesity crisis.
>>
>> IMO, this is marketing for a motorized vehicle whose 
>> design mainly
>> consists of giving riders the illusion that they are 
>> riding a bicycle.
> 
> I understand your point. But speaking of "people apart": 
> That's you and me. At least in the U.S., but also in most 
> other countries, avid cyclists are a relatively rare breed. 
> In general, people who build purposeful exertion into their 
> lifestyle are quite uncommon.
> 
> Yes, there are certain locations where geographic factors - 
> natural or built - make daily exertion more common. I'm 
> thinking of dense towns with mixed zoning, where one can 
> still find a grocery shop and a workplace within walking 
> distance of most homes. But ISTM the trend in the 
> "westernized" world is to make those places less and less 
> common. And even in "developing" countries, as soon as a 
> person can afford something with a motor, they want to buy 
> it to make getting around easier.
> 
> Those of us who push ourselves to use muscle power are 
> similar to the Amish. We impose voluntary restrictions on 
> ourselves, for what we perceive as our own good and the good 
> of the community. We'll always be unusual, unless the built 
> environment changes greatly.
> 

The Amish expression is to be in the world but not of it.

Works for me.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971