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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc Subject: Re: Shutdown - 25 Years Later Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 12:38:58 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 45 Message-ID: <vu7v4i$fsm4$1@dont-email.me> References: <pan$1c8bb$619a6b57$40e9fbf7$742927fd@linux.rocks> <eli$2504180033@qaz.wtf> <m6een4Fiuq2U2@mid.individual.net> <vtt1pr$2jm59$4@dont-email.me> <biOMP.2417830$t84d.626730@fx11.iad> <slrn10084b2.ort.jj@iridium.wf32df> <wwv5xizpaoe.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <vu2lpn$3mfun$1@dont-email.me> <68057416@news.ausics.net> <vu43gk$ucll$1@dont-email.me> <401kdlxknd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vu7m0d$8710$3@dont-email.me> <r14kdlxerj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vu7tke$et8k$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 13:38:59 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="190a58b548a9408bd89f05ecd0bdd315"; logging-data="520900"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18zjCMiPLUOPSeDgg3ly7gCrvpPEhuQVPo=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:EYG4JwBCXKbBACbQ0QNwT2l/DnU= Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <vu7tke$et8k$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 3221 On 4/22/25 12:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 22/04/2025 10:27, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2025-04-22 11:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 22/04/2025 09:35, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-21 02:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>>> On 21 Apr 2025 08:24:22 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like they're talking about the cache in the drive itself, >>>>>> making sure data is physically written out before power-off. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, you could be right. >>>>> >>>>> I say “unfortunately“, because I think it’s a dumb idea for drives >>>>> to have >>>>> their own cache. >>>> >>>> Not at all. There is a huge speed improvement. >>>> >>> The key is to have a large enough capacitor in the drive to flush all >>> those caches on power off. >> >> Or power off by command, not pulling the cable. >> > The reason you pull the cable is > > (i) the electricity company did it for you > (ii) the power off button/command didn't work. > (iii) There was no swap left and you couldn't even log in to issue the > shutdown command > > My Orange Pi 5 freezes all the time. I don't know if the power off button is any better than pulling the power cable. One thing I have been pondering, is a hardware heartbeat. I vaguely remember reading that such a thing exists. I wondered if it was possible to hang a clean-up routine off it. i.e if something stops the heartbeat try to flush writes to disk, before the power reset. It is probably a stupid idea, because by the time the computer was frozen enough to prevent the heartbeat, it is probably too sick to run any clean-up code, and/or the pending disk writes may still leave the disk in an inconsistent state.