Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Public libraries
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 08:40:30 -0700
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On 4/22/2025 2:52 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 22/04/2025 01:23, Don Y wrote:
>> We've been discussing the long-term relevance of public
>> libraries and the funding thereof.  It seems like this is
>> something that will likely be fading from municipal budgets,
>> largely from disuse and ease of other entities picking up
>> any such use that is shed in their absence.
> 
> Closing a public library tends to go down badly with the community. The 
> authorities have however hit upon the money saving scheme of making all their 
> librarians redundant and replacing them with unpaid volunteers.
> (under threat of closure in no-one does volunteer)

I think the "true" (degreed) librarians are now gone.  There are still
paid staff.  But, ours have been severely cut (e.g., 40 hours per week
instead of 6 days plus a short sunday).  Folks with kids who need
to access the libraries now have three days each week where the doors
stay open after 5PM -- for just an hour, sometimes two.

Being open during the day seems sort of counterproductive as most folks
are working, kids are in school, etc.

> Book check-in out is now all self service robotic and no one remaining still 
> has any true librarian research skills. Magnetic tags in the spine of the books 
> and NFC loops at the doors do the rest.

We have self-serve checkout -- barcodes on library card and all lendable items.
The "spine tags" didn't work out.  The detectors are in place by the doors
but not powered (i.e., a stage prop).  Nothing to stop you from taking out
an item without it being recorded.  Nothing to stop you from taking out
an item that someone else has had set aside for them (e.g., usually the most
popular books/movies are on the longest waiting lists so you won't ever
find them in the normal stacks -- someone will have put in a reservation
for those and they will dutifully be kept in a different area, tagged with the
name of the requesting donor.  So, do your "window shopping" there!)

> Last time I got something difficult on loan from the national collection was 
> just before lockdown. It came in on the day that they were told to lock up. 
> Chief librarian gave me a call to say if you want it you have to come now and 
> collect immediately - we won't be opening our doors tomorrow. Lockdown also 
> meant I obtained electronic access and enough expertise to track down all but 
> the most exotic reference sources.

There are public resources to locate items at most repositories across the
country -- universities, public libraries, etc.  But, actual access to the
items is often difficult.  The library does the research and acquisition
for the patron.  I was always happy with their results and timeliness
though items are only available for a shorter ~3 week checkout and not
renewable; fines also apply for late returns -- they did away with fines
on "local" borrowing a long time ago so folks tend to just hold onto
items that "self renew" every 4 weeks for a total of 4 renewals followed by
a one month grace period -- at which time, they assume the item is lost
and bill you for its replacement (which usually gets people to return the
item that has been sitting on their counter, etc.)

> It was a 3 week loan that lasted 6 months. The complex returns paperwork was 
> ignored when they reopened. It was throw it in this big box with everything 
> else and we will look at it in about a week when any Covid viruses have time 
> expired.

ILLs (inter-library loans) come with a special "jacket" ("Do not remove")
and instructions NOT to return it through the normal (book chute)
mechanism but, instead, to bring it to the "desk" for special handling.

But, their only recourse is to fine you.  And, the only mechanism they
have to COLLECT those fines is to restrict your borrowing privileges
(but, nothing stops you from removing items without those privileges,
see above)

The "attitude" is they don't want to create obstacles to people
USING the library (this suggests they are having trouble being regarded
as "useful") -- hence the lack of fines and more permissive borrowing
rules.

>> E.g., I visit the local (branch) library, regularly -- but,
>> mainly to rent DVDs.  Nothing on their shelves is really pertinent
>> to my areas of research -- though they have often been called
>> upon to acquire a copy of a technical article or reference
>> from some other library (in some other state).  From the reaction
>> I get when I make these requests, I suspect I am, by far, the
>> exception, in this usage.
> 
> It is unusual requests for rare books that cause most trouble for the willing 
> unpaid volunteers. No longer affects me I do my own.

I tended to request lots of research papers that would typically be
behind paywalls or simply "not publicly available" (e.g., referenced
as "private correspondences" in journal articles).  I was always
grateful for the effort expended on my behalf.  (I would periodically
bake cookies, cheesecakes, pies, etc. for the staff to share -- thus
am rather well-known... at least at my local branch)

>> The other main use I see is for "public computers".  I suspect
>> that for people who can't afford an internet connection (or
>> one of sufficient bandwidth for their needs?)  A sort of "PUBLIC
>> Internet Cafe".
> 
> That is quite well used in mine as are the 3D printers mainly for schools use 
> (we repair them from time to time, likewise their computers). It hosts a 
> "Repair Cafe" every other month shared with another venue we can fix (or 
> condemn) most things. I do computers and mobile phones we have wood workers, 
> and several automation specialists.

The public computer usage varies inversely with the "local affluence",
understandably so.  In the poorer parts of town, there may be 40 or
50 machines occupied (2 x 1 hour limit).  In more affluent areas,
maybe 5 in use -- usually kids playing games.  "Bring your own thumb drive"

If the copier/printer breaks, that's it until someone can be sent out to
repair it (staff can usually correct a paper jam; but, try to put your
own paper inside and they'll pounce on you for fear you'll "break it")

Computers suffer from similar fates:  "This workstation out of order.
Please use another"

No 3D printers.  Those -- and repair clinics -- are hosted by local Maker
house (volunteer).

NO ONE is allowed to dick with their kit -- volunteer, patron, etc.

> Most amusing recent ones were a huge parasol 20' across, a full size artist's 
> dummy and next month we are promised a skeleton to mend.
> 
>> Finally, "babysitting services", of a sort.  "Storytimes" for
>> young children.  "Lego club" for kids and young adults.  Etc.
>>
>> I rarely see someone browsing the stacks.  Any print material
>> that I see taken out is often from "reservations" placed on those
>> materials, via their online portal.  I.e., this could just
>> as easily be done with any other web-based provider (contracted
>> by the city to ACT as a library?).
> 
> There are plenty of people in and out. Just no paid employees any more.

Storytimes see a lot of activity.  There's also a "knitting club".
But, those people are just using floor space; they could just
as easily be accommodated in the (larger) park facilities around
town.  The park district hosts a variety of activities -- art classes,
guest lectures, "free movie nights" (BIG screen), exercise classes,
etc.

>> [Note this is increasingly happening with video content as
>> physical media are being replaced with streaming services.]
>>
>> Ebooks don't seem to have as broad an acceptance; likely because the
>> licensing model is stupid:  how can you have *one* copy of an ebook?
>> The author/publisher should, instead, charge PER USE.  200 patrons
>> waiting for one copy of an ebook -- at 4 week renewal times -- is
>> likely not going to result in more "sales".  Instead, 200 patrons
>> ALL having access to 200 copies of the book WHILE IT IS IN DEMAND
>> seems like a better business model (are you going to wait a YEAR
>> to read an ebook?)
> 
> eBooks here and eJournals took off spectacularly during lockdown. Print 
> magazines never recovered our public library used to have a decent range - now 
> they are online only. Same for streaming over internet vs DVDs.

DVDs are relatively common (despite threats to do away with them).
I think because many parts of town wouldn't have the ability
to stream much content.  Often, you wouldn't want to put the medium
*in* your player (kids handling them with sticky crap on their
hands).  The library only verifies the correct title is in the
case; no guarantee that it works, is in playable condition, etc.

We were able to use the library system throughout the pandemic.
But, couldn't enter the buildings.  Instead, you would request
titles through the online portal and pick them up OUTSIDE the
library (present your library card ON AN OFFERED METAL PLATE,
ID side up, please -- so it can be scanned).  Returns would sit
for a week before being reshelved (to give any virus present a chance
to die off -- no desire to spray books with alcohol!)

The public computers (and "storytimes") were not available, though.

It was actually easier to GET items, then (less demand) -- though
the long lines (6 ft spacing) outdoors and elaborate "routing"
to ensure COMING patrons didn't interact with LEAVING patrons
were tedious.

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