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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Computable Functions --- OUTPUTS MUST CORRESPOND TO INPUTS
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 10:40:22 -0500
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On 4/23/2025 4:05 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 22.apr.2025 om 21:51 schreef olcott:
>> On 4/22/2025 2:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 22.apr.2025 om 20:51 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 4/22/2025 1:07 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 22.apr.2025 om 18:28 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 4/22/2025 7:57 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Tue, 15 Apr 2025 15:44:06 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 4/15/2025 2:03 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/15/2025 2:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/15/2025 11:05 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/15/2025 11:29 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *corresponding output to the input*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not freaking allowed to look at any damn thing else besides the
>>>>>>>>>>>> freaking input. Must compute whatever mapping ACTUALLY 
>>>>>>>>>>>> EXISTS FROM
>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS INPUT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So the algorithm HHH that you've implemented computes *some*
>>>>>>>>>>> computable function, but it does not compute the halting 
>>>>>>>>>>> function as
>>>>>>>>>>> it is not computable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *corresponding output to the input*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That doesn't refute anything I said.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You continue to stupidly insist that int sum(int x, int y) 
>>>>>>>> {return x +
>>>>>>>> y; }
>>>>>>>> returns 7 for sum(3,2) because you incorrectly understand how these
>>>>>>>> things fundamentally work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is stupidly wrong to expect HHH(DD) report on the direct 
>>>>>>>> execution of
>>>>>>>> DD when you are not telling it one damn thing about this direct
>>>>>>>> execution.
>>>>>>> What else is it missing that the processor uses to execute it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _DD()
>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> libx86emu <is> a correct x86 processor and does emulate
>>>>>> its inputs correctly.
>>>>>
>>>>> The key thing here is that Olcott consistently does not understand 
>>>>> that HHH is given a finite string input that according to the 
>>>>> semantics of the x86 language specifies a halting program,
>>>>
>>>> That is stupidly incorrect. The only question that HHH
>>>> must answer is the behavior that its input specifies.
>>>>
>>> Yes and the input, a finite string specifies a halting program 
>>> according to the unique semantics of the x86 language, as proven by 
>>> direct execution and world-class simulators. HHH's failure to reach 
>>> the end of the simulation does not show otherwise.
>>
>> I have proven that the directly executed DD and DD
>> emulated by HHH according to the semantics of the
>> x86 language have a different set of state changes
>> many hundreds of times for several years.
> 
> We have never seen a proof, only your unbased claims. You never showed 
> the first state change that is different for direct execution and the 
> simulation. You only showed a HHH that fails to reach the end of a 
> halting program.

_DD()
[00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
[00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
[0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
[00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
[00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
[0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
[0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
[0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
[00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
[00002154] 5d         pop ebp
[00002155] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]

Even the above is complete proof to everyone that
knows the x86 language.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer