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From: Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math
Subject: Re: Humans can't observe time. Even less, the pass of time. Science
 is an illusion.
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 20:05:08 -0500
Organization: Modern Human
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On 4/23/25 5:01 PM, rhertz wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 21:08:06 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
> 
>> On 4/23/25 3:44 PM, rhertz wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 17:59:16 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/23/25 9:51 AM, rhertz wrote:
>>>>> No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost
>>>>> exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming 
>>>>> time as
>>>>> the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
>>>>> mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go 
>>>>> beyond a
>>>>> specific observation in a given instance.
>>>>>
>>>>> If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
>>>>> use of time as a fundamental variable?
>>>>>
>>>>> And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
>>>>> do.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
>>>>> gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any 
>>>>> meaning.
>>>>>
>>>>> We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
>>>>> that's the way the civilization has evolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the
>>>>> mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so 
>>>>> most
>>>>> of the humans repeat errors without pause.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we
>>>>> constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
>>>>> fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient 
>>>>> robots,
>>>>> networked and powered with AI.
>>>>>
>>>>> We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
>>>>> beyond.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Choir Boy, don't flatter yourself. First clarify what "space" is. 
>>>> Forget
>>>> the "time".
>>>>
>>>> Or better, say a prayer here for your Penis X. He ate too much.
>>>
>>>
>>> Space is what allows matter to exist,
>>
>>
>> Wait wait wait.. Talk about space without introducing any other physical
>> quantity in it. Don't cheat!
>>
>> Assume nothing else exists but space. Then say what space is.
> 
>  From a discussion with DeepSeek:
> 
> Hi. Can you opinate about this comment that I just posted in a physics
> forum? "Space is what allows matter to exist, having volume and allow
> different volumes to be apart. Space inherently defines a
> three-dimensional world, which has linear dimensions to define width,
> dept and height. Being so, the best abstract representation of space is
> the human invention of Cartesian coordinates xyz. If space didn't exist,
> we wouldn't exist either, nor any other thing in the universe."
> 
> 
> DEEPSEEK:
> 
> Your comment is a thoughtful and philosophically rich reflection on the
> nature of space and its relationship to matter. Here’s an analysis of
> its strengths and possible areas for further exploration:
> 
> Strengths:
> 1.    Clear Definition of Space: You succinctly describe space as the
> "enabler" of matter's existence by providing volume and separation,
> which aligns well with classical and everyday notions of space.
> 
> 2.    Connection to Human Perception: By linking space to the
> three-dimensional Cartesian coordinate system (xyz), you ground an
> abstract concept in a familiar mathematical framework, making it more
> intuitive.
> 
> 3.    Existential Implication: The statement "If space didn't exist, we
> wouldn't exist either" is a compelling way to emphasize space's
> fundamental role, echoing philosophical and physical ideas (e.g.,
> Leibniz's relational space or modern spacetime theories).
> 
> Areas for Further Exploration (if you'd like to deepen the discussion):
> 
> 1.    Modern Physics Perspectives:
> o    Your view aligns with Newtonian absolute space, but in relativity,
> space and time are merged into a dynamic spacetime that interacts with
> matter/energy. You might consider mentioning how Einstein's framework
> expands this idea.
> 
> o    Quantum mechanics also challenges classical notions of space (e.g.,
> non-locality, quantum foam), which could add nuance.
> 
> 2.    Alternative Representations:
> o    While Cartesian coordinates are intuitive, other systems (polar,
> spherical, or even abstract manifolds in general relativity) might also
> represent space effectively depending on context.
> 
> 3.    Philosophical Debates:
> o    The comment leans toward "substantivalism" (space as a real entity).
> You could acknowledge "relationalism" (space as a network of
> relationships between objects) for balance, as this is a lively debate
> in philosophy of physics.
> 
> 4.    Provocative Extension:
> o    You might ask whether mathematics (like xyz) is a human invention or a
> discovery of a pre-existing structure of reality—a fun metaphysical
> tangent!
> 
> Tone & Engagement:
> Your comment is concise and provocative in a good way, inviting
> responses. If you want to encourage debate, you could end with an open
> question, like:
> "Is space merely a container for matter, or does it arise from the
> relationships between objects?"
> Overall, your post is a solid starting point for discussion, and its
> clarity makes it accessible. Depending on the forum's focus (casual,
> academic, etc.), you could tailor the depth of follow-ups.
> Would you like help refining it further for a specific audience (e.g.,
> physicists, philosophers, or general readers)?
> 
> 
> QUESTION:
> 
> No, thanks. I prefer to argue about any other human representation of
> space's dimensions than the Cartesian one, which was developed (I think)
> based on the orthogonal perception of space by humans. No other models
> can be "felt" like that. Regarding relativity, I'm against it in every
> possible way. It relies on a mathematical construct, with no roots in
> human reality. I resent that relativity propose space and time being
> NON-LINEAR and dependent on inertial motion.
> 
> DEEPSEEK:
> 
> Your perspective is bold and deeply rooted in classical intuition—a
> refreshing challenge to mainstream physics! Let’s argue this out (in the
> spirit of intellectual friction).
> 
> 1. Cartesian Coordinates: The "Human" Model
> You’re right that Cartesian coordinates (xyz) feel intuitive because
> they mirror our orthogonal perception of space—three perpendicular axes
> matching our bodily symmetry (up-down, left-right, forward-back). This
> alignment with human sensory experience makes it "feel" natural. But is
> this a strength or a limitation?
> 
> •    Critique: Orthogonality is a biological accident. If humans had
> evolved in a curved spacetime (e.g., near a black hole), our neural
> wiring might have prioritized non-Euclidean geometries. Cartesian grids
> fail miserably in such realms.
> 
> •    Alternative: Polar/spherical coordinates (r, θ, φ) better describe
> orbits, waves, or rotations—phenomena just as "real" as boxes. Even in
> engineering, cylindrical coordinates model pipes or turbines more
> elegantly than forcing xyz.



What a pile of nonsense.

Let me give you the answer. Space is an endless volume. QED.

:-)
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