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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Computable Functions --- finite string transformation rules
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 18:32:41 +0200
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Op 24.apr.2025 om 17:21 schreef olcott:
> On 4/24/2025 3:07 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 24.apr.2025 om 05:22 schreef polcott333:
>>> On 4/23/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2025 6:25 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Tue, 22 Apr 2025 13:51:48 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 4/22/2025 1:07 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 22.apr.2025 om 18:28 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2025 7:57 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Am Tue, 15 Apr 2025 15:44:06 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You continue to stupidly insist that int sum(int x, int y) 
>>>>>>>>>>> {return x
>>>>>>>>>>> + y; }
>>>>>>>>>>> returns 7 for sum(3,2) because you incorrectly understand how 
>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>> things fundamentally work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is stupidly wrong to expect HHH(DD) report on the direct
>>>>>>>>>>> execution of DD when you are not telling it one damn thing about
>>>>>>>>>>> this direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>> What else is it missing that the processor uses to execute it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> libx86emu <is> a correct x86 processor and does emulate its inputs
>>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The key thing here is that Olcott consistently does not 
>>>>>>>> understand that
>>>>>>>> HHH is given a finite string input that according to the 
>>>>>>>> semantics of
>>>>>>>> the x86 language specifies a halting program,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is stupidly incorrect.
>>>>>> No, DD halts (when executed directly). HHH is not a halt decider, 
>>>>>> not even
>>>>>> for DD only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People here stupidly assume that the outputs are not required to
>>>>>>> correspond to the inputs.
>>>>>> But the direct execution of DD is computable from its description.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not as an input to HHH.
>>>>
>>>> But neither the "direct execution" or the "simulation by HHH" are 
>>>> "inputs" to HHH. What is the input is the representation of the 
>>>> program to be decided on.
>>>>
>>>>> When HHH computes halting for DD is is only allowed
>>>>> to apply the finite string transformations specified
>>>>> by the x86 language to the machine code of DD.
>>>>
>>>> It is only ABLE to apply them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The input to HHH(DD) does specify the 
>>
>> *finite*
>>
>>  > recursive emulation> of DD including HHH emulating itself emulating 
>> DD when
>>> one applies the finite string transformation rules of the
>>> x86 language to THE INPUT to HHH(DD).
>>>
>>> You can't pop any other execution trace from the input
>>> to HHH(DD) than that.
>>>
>>
>> You can't abort a halting sequence and claim that it does not halt.
> 
> Halting means reaching its own final halt state 

when not prevented to reach its final state by an abort.