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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: All of computation and human reasoning can be encoded as finite
 string transformations --- Quine
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 14:28:57 -0500
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On 4/24/2025 3:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2025-04-22 18:33:18 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 4/22/2025 4:07 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-21 20:44:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2025 4:48 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-20 17:53:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/20/2025 11:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/20/25 tic 1:33 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> No counter-example to the above statement exists for all
>>>>>>>> computation and all human reasoning that can be expressed
>>>>>>>> in language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But can all Human reasoning be actually expressed in language?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, how do you express the smell of a rose in a finite 
>>>>>>> string so you can do reasoning with it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/analytic-synthetic/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all human reasoning that can be expressed in language
>>>>>> <is> the {analytic} side of the analytic/synthetic distinction
>>>>>> that humanity has totally screwed up since
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two Dogmas of Empiricism
>>>>>> Willard Van Orman Quine
>>>>>> https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Couldn't even understand that the term Bachelor
>>>>>> as stipulated to have the semantic meaning of
>>>>>> Bachelor(x) ≡ ~Married(x) ∧ Male(x) ∧ Adult(x) ∧ Human(x)
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean that if Quine says something that proves that he does not 
>>>>> know
>>>>> that thing?
>>>>
>>>> When Quine says that there is no such thing as expressions
>>>> of language that are true entirely on their semantic
>>>> meaning expressed in language Quine is stupidly wrong.
>>>
>>> Where did Quine say that?
>>
>> When he disagrees that analytic truth can be separately
>> demarcated.
> 
> Where?
> 

Willard Van Orman Quine: The Analytic/Synthetic Distinction

“...he is best known for his rejection of the
  analytic/synthetic distinction.”

https://iep.utm.edu/quine-an/


>>  I uniquely made his mistake more clear.
> 
> No, you didn't. You only made a more clear mistake but about another
> topic.
> 

All expressions of language that can be proven true entirely
on the basis of basic facts also expressed in language <are>
the analytic side of the analytic / synthetic distinction.

>> He disagrees that there are any expressions that are
>> proven completely true entirely on the basis of their
>> meaning.
> 
> Where does he say that?
> 

Willard Van Orman Quine: The Analytic/Synthetic Distinction

“...he is best known for his rejection of the
analytic/synthetic distinction.”

https://iep.utm.edu/quine-an/

>> HERE IS HOW HE IS WRONG
>> Truth is a necessary consequence of applying the truth
>> preserving operation of semantic entailment to the set
>> of basic facts (cannot be derived from other facts)
>> expressed in language.
> 
> Where does he say that truth is a necessary consequence of applying
> the truth preserving operation of semantic entailment to the set of
> basic facts (cannot be derived from other facts) expressed in
> language?
> 

That is what he totally gets wrong when he rejects the
analytic/synthetic distinction.

>> Truth expressed in language <is> analytic truth.
> 
> No, not always. An empirical truth expressed in a language is an
> empirical truth. But which is a truth that is inferred from two
> premises, one analytic and one empirical?
> 

The set of basic (indivisible) facts are the axioms for
the body of knowledge that can be expressed in language.

>> Truth expressed by physical sensations <is> empirical truth.
> 
> I don't think a set of physical sensations can express a truth.
> 

"I saw a cat walk across my living room floor."
Requires seeing a cat.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer