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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string
 transformations to inputs
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 16:42:48 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <vujfuu$35hcg$1@dont-email.me>

On 4/26/2025 4:33 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 4/26/2025 1:26 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 26.apr.2025 om 19:29 schreef olcott:
>>> On 4/26/2025 12:16 PM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Sat, 26 Apr 2025 11:22:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 4/25/2025 5:09 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Fri, 25 Apr 2025 16:46:11 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 4/25/2025 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/25/25 12:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Once we understand that Turing computable functions are only 
>>>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>>>> to derived their outputs by applying finite string operations to
>>>>>>>>> their inputs then my claim about the behavior of DD that HHH must
>>>>>>>>> report on is completely proven.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Youy have your words wrong. They are only ABLE to use finite
>>>>>>>> algorithms of finite string operations. The problem they need to
>>>>>>>> solve do not need to be based on that, but on just general mappings
>>>>>>>> of finite strings to finite strings that might not be described 
>>>>>>>> by a
>>>>>>>> finite algorithm.
>>>>>>>> The mapping is computable, *IF* we can find a finite algorith of
>>>>>>>> transformation steps to make that mapping.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are no finite string operations that can be applied to the 
>>>>>>> input
>>>>>>> to HHH(DD) that derive the behavior of of the directly executed DD
>>>>>>> thus DD is forbidden from reporting on this behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, there are, the operations that the processor executes. How 
>>>>>> did you
>>>>>> think it works?
>>>>>>
>>>>> When you try to actually show the actual steps instead of being 
>>>>> stuck in
>>>>> utterly baseless rebuttal mode YOU FAIL!
>>>> Which x86 semantics does a processor violate when deriving a halting
>>>> state from the string description of DD?
>>>>
>>>>> When any HHH emulates DD according to the finite string transformation
>>>>> rules specified by the x86 language (the line of demarcation between
>>>>> correct and incorrect emulation) no emulated DD can possibly reach its
>>>>> final halt state and halt.
>>>> Yes, where is that line?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everyone claims that HHH violates the rules
>>> of the x86 language yet no one can point out
>>> which rules are violated because they already
>>> know that HHH does not violate any rules and
>>> they are only playing trollish head games.
>>>
>>> _DD()
>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>
>>> DD emulated by HHH according to the finite
>>> string transformation rules of the x86 language
>>> does emulate [00002133] through [0000213c] which
>>> causes HHH to emulate itself emulating DD again
>>> in recursive emulation repeating the cycle of
>>> [00002133] through [0000213c].
>>>
>>
>> Finite recursion, 
> 
> Mathematical induction proves that DD emulated by
> any HHH 

Changing the input is not allowed.