Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: silca and Tariffs
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:40:07 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 149
Message-ID: <vulq5n$r1bg$3@dont-email.me>
References: <m73mf4F2j52U1@mid.individual.net>
 <ql6q0k18aqn8e6e5ptahus7kcv5knler3f@4ax.com>
 <5p9PP.2345993$FVcd.1513642@fx10.iad> <vujcf4$30jrt$2@dont-email.me>
 <7suq0k9vovuuv8e3jabhhv7u108m262q7c@4ax.com>
 <torr0k1983qqcklk7mo7jus61srjjpoq73@4ax.com> <vuli08$10vvq$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 19:40:07 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="51a2c05526a51af7f382a057d1e69439";
	logging-data="886128"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+YuPAgxrZkJsQmX59kKzfwHwfEslOIK58="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DEnCXxUFHbjvfkHKEHw2Vjabobk=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vuli08$10vvq$5@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 7956

On 4/27/2025 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/27/2025 3:47 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:40:05 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 14:33:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/26/2025 1:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
>>>>> On Sat Apr 26 13:41:16 2025 Catrike Ryder  wrote:
>>>>>> On 26 Apr 2025 09:14:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/VKz5J5PPt-Q?si=ntPrbZPhCguTIuQM>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh of Silca does a good job of explaining how the tariffs are 
>>>>>>> effecting
>>>>>>> US companies certainly small ones, as ever it?s a moving target 
>>>>>>> so may well
>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many countries have tariffs on products from the USA. I see no reason
>>>>>> why the USA shouldn't have tariffs on their products. Maybe it will
>>>>>> bring manufacturing back, maybe not. The USA used to be a
>>>>>> manufacturing powerhouse and the bureaucratic jackasses let it slip
>>>>>> away. I don't know if Trump's plans can save the country, but it was
>>>>>> definatly going to hell with the same old, same old plans. At least
>>>>>> he's trying something new.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the Democrats tarriffws are good for other countries 
>>>>> but not for Ameriucs. It was perfectly OK for Clinton to apply 
>>>>> larger tarrifs to foreign goods than TGrump is doing but perfectly 
>>>>> awful for Trump to do titfor tat..
>>>>>
>>>>> Time to put these people away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You do not understand the problem.  Duty disparities are
>>>> broad, deep, convoluted and often at multiple cross
>>>> purposes. Oh, and they span every administration since
>>>> nearly forever.
>>>>
>>>> All that applies in spades to domestic micromanagement in
>>>> targeted areas in this and every country, what with
>>>> incentives (bribes) and disincentives (punishment) of a
>>>> hundred flavors in thousand of iterations.
>>>>
>>>> Small example-
>>>>
>>>> United States of America is written in Japanese as Beikoku:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.pngegg.com/en/png-fnrij
>>>>
>>>> or "rice" + "country", as the reformation of language in the
>>>> 1860s was contemporaneous with plentiful and inexpensive
>>>> American rice imports.
>>>>
>>>> That was long, long ago, before nearly all Japanese
>>>> administrations encouraged (subsidized)  extremely small
>>>> inefficient farms. Along with the votes of farmers, whose
>>>> numbers would decrease if farms were combined into larger
>>>> fields. (this is happening in USA now, a continuance of a
>>>> long trend, with more food production from less labor, but a
>>>> side effect is decreased farmer votes. In some counties this
>>>> has had major political effect.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://ap.fftc.org.tw/article/1327
>>>>
>>>> And don't think we're better. Review USA sugar subsidies,
>>>> price supports and duties which are no better than policies
>>>> for rice in Japan.
>>>>
>>>> Or the Harley Tax. Or the Chicken Tax.
>>>>
>>>> I have been an importer of tubular bicycle tires across a
>>>> half dozen entities, including Yellow Jersey, for over 50
>>>> years. That's a product we have not made here in USA since
>>>> before The Great Pacific War.  I pay import duty on each and
>>>> every tire and the rate hasn't changed, up or down, in a
>>>> half century.
>>>
>>> Ah but... what would be the cost of setting up a factory and
>>> manufacturing bike tires in the  U.S.? Is it possible for the U.S. to
>>> compete with foreign bicycle tire makers?
>>
>> I suspect that building a bicycle tire factory costs less then the
>> building an automobile factory and auto manufacturers have been moving
>> their factories around for years.
>>
>> -- 
>> C'est bon
>> Soloman
> 
> Different problem.
> 
> Auto assembly plants require huge supporting infrastructure and applied 
> engineering (large plants particularly rely on process timing 
> coordination which is complex and difficult).
> 
> Successful examples have many supplier plants nearby, often with hourly 
> deliveries.  Less efficient examples ameliorate supply logistics issues 
> with huge warehouses (inefficient application of capital).
> 
> I've noted here before that Ray Gasiorowski (for whom I worked in 
> Houston) had been an engineer at Huffman (Huffy) before taking a 
> position in Russia along with a dozen other US engineers to design a 
> bicycle plant. The Commisars wanted raw steel, rubber, tire fabric, 
> brass, paint and cardboard sheet in one end and boxed finished bicycles 
> out the other end.  He quit after a few years and the plant was never 
> built.  There's no efficient way to make 72 plated brass nipples in the 
> same time as one bicycle fork, and so on. It's almost a parody of 
> efficiency to consider it.
> 
> I also was very familiar with SR-Sakae's plant in Tokyo which was 
> largely a thixoform aluminum facility (although they did do cold 
> forgings and chainring stampings, automated multi-process machining, 
> anodizing, polishing etc as well). For each of the four thixoform 
> stations (some running and some not depending on time of year and the 
> order book) the molten aluminum vat ran through heated insulated lines 
> into the ram and on to multiple tool outlets.  Those might typically be 
> two left crank arms, two rights, a stem, a seatpost top and two pedal 
> bodies.  At regular intervals the process stops, the operator removes 
> one or more injection tool(s) and replaces with different tool(s) then 
> starts again.
> 
> Building a facility is one thing, and relatively simple. Efficient 
> tooling (and tooling QC maintenance), process design, training and 
> logistics are where the demons lie.

My company has been trying to qualify a vendor in India to manufacture 
aluminum explosion-proof enclosures that meet Indias own standards. The 
regulatory compliance issues have resulted in an almost two-year process 
working with the vendor developing a mold, getting first articles that 
_don't_ look like absolute shit and are capable of passing the 
Explosion-proof testing, as well as showing that the vendor has ISO 
approved QMS policies (Also an Indian requirement). Our latest vendor 
essentially gave up after a year of trying to meet their own in-country 
standards. They had advertised that they were a manufacturer of 
explosion-proof equipment, it turns out they make one standard enclosure 
and couldn't figure out how to adapt it to fit our guts, even with us 
providing modified CAD drawings.