Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: silca and Tariffs
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:26:37 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
Lines: 187
Message-ID: <vulssu$1c95k$4@dont-email.me>
References: <m73mf4F2j52U1@mid.individual.net>
 <ql6q0k18aqn8e6e5ptahus7kcv5knler3f@4ax.com>
 <5p9PP.2345993$FVcd.1513642@fx10.iad> <vujcf4$30jrt$2@dont-email.me>
 <7suq0k9vovuuv8e3jabhhv7u108m262q7c@4ax.com>
 <torr0k1983qqcklk7mo7jus61srjjpoq73@4ax.com> <vuli08$10vvq$5@dont-email.me>
 <vulq5n$r1bg$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 20:26:39 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="7376a270fb5e664d88ca308dd8fe7d64";
	logging-data="1451188"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18K3h4uiZC1RVeEpCm2SoFU"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:u45Um0FG9wio35r13yNqBJDpYa0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vulq5n$r1bg$3@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 8640

On 4/27/2025 12:40 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> On 4/27/2025 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/27/2025 3:47 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:40:05 +0700, John B. 
>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 14:33:53 -0500, AMuzi 
>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/26/2025 1:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat Apr 26 13:41:16 2025 Catrike Ryder  wrote:
>>>>>>> On 26 Apr 2025 09:14:12 GMT, Roger Merriman 
>>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/VKz5J5PPt-Q?si=ntPrbZPhCguTIuQM>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Josh of Silca does a good job of explaining how the 
>>>>>>>> tariffs are effecting
>>>>>>>> US companies certainly small ones, as ever it?s a 
>>>>>>>> moving target so may well
>>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many countries have tariffs on products from the USA. 
>>>>>>> I see no reason
>>>>>>> why the USA shouldn't have tariffs on their products. 
>>>>>>> Maybe it will
>>>>>>> bring manufacturing back, maybe not. The USA used to 
>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> manufacturing powerhouse and the bureaucratic 
>>>>>>> jackasses let it slip
>>>>>>> away. I don't know if Trump's plans can save the 
>>>>>>> country, but it was
>>>>>>> definatly going to hell with the same old, same old 
>>>>>>> plans. At least
>>>>>>> he's trying something new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the Democrats tarriffws are good for 
>>>>>> other countries but not for Ameriucs. It was perfectly 
>>>>>> OK for Clinton to apply larger tarrifs to foreign 
>>>>>> goods than TGrump is doing but perfectly awful for 
>>>>>> Trump to do titfor tat..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Time to put these people away.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You do not understand the problem.  Duty disparities are
>>>>> broad, deep, convoluted and often at multiple cross
>>>>> purposes. Oh, and they span every administration since
>>>>> nearly forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> All that applies in spades to domestic micromanagement in
>>>>> targeted areas in this and every country, what with
>>>>> incentives (bribes) and disincentives (punishment) of a
>>>>> hundred flavors in thousand of iterations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Small example-
>>>>>
>>>>> United States of America is written in Japanese as 
>>>>> Beikoku:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.pngegg.com/en/png-fnrij
>>>>>
>>>>> or "rice" + "country", as the reformation of language 
>>>>> in the
>>>>> 1860s was contemporaneous with plentiful and inexpensive
>>>>> American rice imports.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was long, long ago, before nearly all Japanese
>>>>> administrations encouraged (subsidized)  extremely small
>>>>> inefficient farms. Along with the votes of farmers, whose
>>>>> numbers would decrease if farms were combined into larger
>>>>> fields. (this is happening in USA now, a continuance of a
>>>>> long trend, with more food production from less labor, 
>>>>> but a
>>>>> side effect is decreased farmer votes. In some counties 
>>>>> this
>>>>> has had major political effect.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ap.fftc.org.tw/article/1327
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't think we're better. Review USA sugar subsidies,
>>>>> price supports and duties which are no better than 
>>>>> policies
>>>>> for rice in Japan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or the Harley Tax. Or the Chicken Tax.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been an importer of tubular bicycle tires across a
>>>>> half dozen entities, including Yellow Jersey, for over 50
>>>>> years. That's a product we have not made here in USA since
>>>>> before The Great Pacific War.  I pay import duty on 
>>>>> each and
>>>>> every tire and the rate hasn't changed, up or down, in a
>>>>> half century.
>>>>
>>>> Ah but... what would be the cost of setting up a factory 
>>>> and
>>>> manufacturing bike tires in the  U.S.? Is it possible 
>>>> for the U.S. to
>>>> compete with foreign bicycle tire makers?
>>>
>>> I suspect that building a bicycle tire factory costs less 
>>> then the
>>> building an automobile factory and auto manufacturers 
>>> have been moving
>>> their factories around for years.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> C'est bon
>>> Soloman
>>
>> Different problem.
>>
>> Auto assembly plants require huge supporting 
>> infrastructure and applied engineering (large plants 
>> particularly rely on process timing coordination which is 
>> complex and difficult).
>>
>> Successful examples have many supplier plants nearby, 
>> often with hourly deliveries.  Less efficient examples 
>> ameliorate supply logistics issues with huge warehouses 
>> (inefficient application of capital).
>>
>> I've noted here before that Ray Gasiorowski (for whom I 
>> worked in Houston) had been an engineer at Huffman (Huffy) 
>> before taking a position in Russia along with a dozen 
>> other US engineers to design a bicycle plant. The 
>> Commisars wanted raw steel, rubber, tire fabric, brass, 
>> paint and cardboard sheet in one end and boxed finished 
>> bicycles out the other end.  He quit after a few years and 
>> the plant was never built.  There's no efficient way to 
>> make 72 plated brass nipples in the same time as one 
>> bicycle fork, and so on. It's almost a parody of 
>> efficiency to consider it.
>>
>> I also was very familiar with SR-Sakae's plant in Tokyo 
>> which was largely a thixoform aluminum facility (although 
>> they did do cold forgings and chainring stampings, 
>> automated multi-process machining, anodizing, polishing 
>> etc as well). For each of the four thixoform stations 
>> (some running and some not depending on time of year and 
>> the order book) the molten aluminum vat ran through heated 
>> insulated lines into the ram and on to multiple tool 
>> outlets.  Those might typically be two left crank arms, 
>> two rights, a stem, a seatpost top and two pedal bodies.  
>> At regular intervals the process stops, the operator 
>> removes one or more injection tool(s) and replaces with 
>> different tool(s) then starts again.
>>
>> Building a facility is one thing, and relatively simple. 
>> Efficient tooling (and tooling QC maintenance), process 
>> design, training and logistics are where the demons lie.
> 
> My company has been trying to qualify a vendor in India to 
> manufacture aluminum explosion-proof enclosures that meet 
> Indias own standards. The regulatory compliance issues have 
> resulted in an almost two-year process working with the 
> vendor developing a mold, getting first articles that 
> _don't_ look like absolute shit and are capable of passing 
> the Explosion-proof testing, as well as showing that the 
> vendor has ISO approved QMS policies (Also an Indian 
> requirement). Our latest vendor essentially gave up after a 
> year of trying to meet their own in-country standards. They 
> had advertised that they were a manufacturer of explosion- 
> proof equipment, it turns out they make one standard 
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========