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From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: silca and Tariffs
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 16:32:04 -0400
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On 4/27/2025 2:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/27/2025 12:40 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>> On 4/27/2025 11:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 4/27/2025 3:47 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 07:40:05 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 14:33:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/26/2025 1:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat Apr 26 13:41:16 2025 Catrike Ryder  wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 26 Apr 2025 09:14:12 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/VKz5J5PPt-Q?si=ntPrbZPhCguTIuQM>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Josh of Silca does a good job of explaining how the tariffs are 
>>>>>>>>> effecting
>>>>>>>>> US companies certainly small ones, as ever it?s a moving target 
>>>>>>>>> so may well
>>>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many countries have tariffs on products from the USA. I see no 
>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>> why the USA shouldn't have tariffs on their products. Maybe it will
>>>>>>>> bring manufacturing back, maybe not. The USA used to be a
>>>>>>>> manufacturing powerhouse and the bureaucratic jackasses let it slip
>>>>>>>> away. I don't know if Trump's plans can save the country, but it 
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> definatly going to hell with the same old, same old plans. At least
>>>>>>>> he's trying something new.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Democrats tarriffws are good for other countries 
>>>>>>> but not for Ameriucs. It was perfectly OK for Clinton to apply 
>>>>>>> larger tarrifs to foreign goods than TGrump is doing but 
>>>>>>> perfectly awful for Trump to do titfor tat..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Time to put these people away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do not understand the problem.  Duty disparities are
>>>>>> broad, deep, convoluted and often at multiple cross
>>>>>> purposes. Oh, and they span every administration since
>>>>>> nearly forever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that applies in spades to domestic micromanagement in
>>>>>> targeted areas in this and every country, what with
>>>>>> incentives (bribes) and disincentives (punishment) of a
>>>>>> hundred flavors in thousand of iterations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Small example-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> United States of America is written in Japanese as Beikoku:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.pngegg.com/en/png-fnrij
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or "rice" + "country", as the reformation of language in the
>>>>>> 1860s was contemporaneous with plentiful and inexpensive
>>>>>> American rice imports.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was long, long ago, before nearly all Japanese
>>>>>> administrations encouraged (subsidized)  extremely small
>>>>>> inefficient farms. Along with the votes of farmers, whose
>>>>>> numbers would decrease if farms were combined into larger
>>>>>> fields. (this is happening in USA now, a continuance of a
>>>>>> long trend, with more food production from less labor, but a
>>>>>> side effect is decreased farmer votes. In some counties this
>>>>>> has had major political effect.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ap.fftc.org.tw/article/1327
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't think we're better. Review USA sugar subsidies,
>>>>>> price supports and duties which are no better than policies
>>>>>> for rice in Japan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or the Harley Tax. Or the Chicken Tax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been an importer of tubular bicycle tires across a
>>>>>> half dozen entities, including Yellow Jersey, for over 50
>>>>>> years. That's a product we have not made here in USA since
>>>>>> before The Great Pacific War.  I pay import duty on each and
>>>>>> every tire and the rate hasn't changed, up or down, in a
>>>>>> half century.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah but... what would be the cost of setting up a factory and
>>>>> manufacturing bike tires in the  U.S.? Is it possible for the U.S. to
>>>>> compete with foreign bicycle tire makers?
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that building a bicycle tire factory costs less then the
>>>> building an automobile factory and auto manufacturers have been moving
>>>> their factories around for years.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> C'est bon
>>>> Soloman
>>>
>>> Different problem.
>>>
>>> Auto assembly plants require huge supporting infrastructure and 
>>> applied engineering (large plants particularly rely on process timing 
>>> coordination which is complex and difficult).
>>>
>>> Successful examples have many supplier plants nearby, often with 
>>> hourly deliveries.  Less efficient examples ameliorate supply 
>>> logistics issues with huge warehouses (inefficient application of 
>>> capital).
>>>
>>> I've noted here before that Ray Gasiorowski (for whom I worked in 
>>> Houston) had been an engineer at Huffman (Huffy) before taking a 
>>> position in Russia along with a dozen other US engineers to design a 
>>> bicycle plant. The Commisars wanted raw steel, rubber, tire fabric, 
>>> brass, paint and cardboard sheet in one end and boxed finished 
>>> bicycles out the other end.  He quit after a few years and the plant 
>>> was never built.  There's no efficient way to make 72 plated brass 
>>> nipples in the same time as one bicycle fork, and so on. It's almost 
>>> a parody of efficiency to consider it.
>>>
>>> I also was very familiar with SR-Sakae's plant in Tokyo which was 
>>> largely a thixoform aluminum facility (although they did do cold 
>>> forgings and chainring stampings, automated multi-process machining, 
>>> anodizing, polishing etc as well). For each of the four thixoform 
>>> stations (some running and some not depending on time of year and the 
>>> order book) the molten aluminum vat ran through heated insulated 
>>> lines into the ram and on to multiple tool outlets.  Those might 
>>> typically be two left crank arms, two rights, a stem, a seatpost top 
>>> and two pedal bodies. At regular intervals the process stops, the 
>>> operator removes one or more injection tool(s) and replaces with 
>>> different tool(s) then starts again.
>>>
>>> Building a facility is one thing, and relatively simple. Efficient 
>>> tooling (and tooling QC maintenance), process design, training and 
>>> logistics are where the demons lie.
>>
>> My company has been trying to qualify a vendor in India to manufacture 
>> aluminum explosion-proof enclosures that meet Indias own standards. 
>> The regulatory compliance issues have resulted in an almost two-year 
>> process working with the vendor developing a mold, getting first 
>> articles that _don't_ look like absolute shit and are capable of 
>> passing the Explosion-proof testing, as well as showing that the 
>> vendor has ISO approved QMS policies (Also an Indian requirement). Our 
>> latest vendor essentially gave up after a year of trying to meet their 
>> own in-country standards. They had advertised that they were a 
>> manufacturer of explosion- proof equipment, it turns out they make one 
>> standard enclosure and couldn't figure out how to adapt it to fit our 
>> guts, even with us providing modified CAD drawings.
>>
>>
> 
> You also don't know if their domestic products are "in compliance" with 
> domestic standards by applying envelopes of cash to the inspectors.
> 

Interesting you would mention that. We do in fact know this as we have 
an in-country sales/service office licensed with the Indian government. 
IT seems that imported products such as ours are held under extremely 
tight scrutiny, while Indian companies in the same market segment are 
granted much more....ummm...."leeway" - hence our issue with getting an 
enclosure that meets _our_ requirements.