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From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
Date: Fri, 2 May 2025 22:58:32 +0100
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On 02/05/2025 22:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-05-02 12:17, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 01/05/2025 20:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> Wouldn't it be just easier to switch to DC?
>>
>> Some of the newer interconnectors are DC and GW capacity (boggle).
>>
>>> Or to at least switch to islands, interconnected by DC.
>>
>> That was how they squared this circle in Japan where the NE are on UK 
>> mains at 50Hz and the SE are on US mains at 60Hz. Not surprisingly all 
>> Japanese kit will work quite happily at either frequency and their 
>> exports will also work on a huge voltage range too.
>>
>> There is quite an interesting magnetic deviation near big DC links.
> 
> I learned today that we can not isolate islands inside the country, 
> because there are regions with a lot of demand and little generation, 
> and other regions with a lot of generation and little demand. To do that 
> would require separate transport.

I don't understand. Surely the Spanish distribution system is pretty 
much like the UK one with maybe the transmission voltages different. The 
main super grid at 400kV and then various other big transmission lines 
at 275kV, 175kV and the lowest EHT at 33kV and circuit breakers so that 
local faults due to trees on the line or lightning strikes remain local.

There should be a hierarchy of bigger isolators all the way back up the 
chain to drop out as much load as is needed to regain control. UK splash 
up failed because they hadn't allowed for domestic solar PV when they 
tried to shed load and it was very sunny.

That may be the problem in Spain too. Failure at midday suggests 
oversupply and rising frequency rather than a power shortage.

USians can't imagine using so little electricity as is the EU norm. The 
maximum amount that you use seems tiny even to me in the UK.

Our 3kW kettle would blow your supply. Same in Japan.

>>> Probably not practical by now.
>>
>> No it is perfectly possible. I'm not sure how they do it.
>>
>> One of my mates worked on the civil engineering for the DC link in the 
>> Irish Sea. This Ireland to UK is 500MW.
>>
>> https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/04/18/irish-uk-grids-linked-via-500-mw- greenlink-interconnector-subsea-cables/
>>
>> ISTR there is a N-S one in the Irish Sea rated at ~2GW and two more 
>> planned for the North Sea although the pylon routing for them on land 
>> has proved extremely controversial. Southern Nimby's want our northern 
>> electricity but they don't want any pylons blighting *their* landscape.

I found a Wiki reference to the one my mate worked on 2.25GW :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_HVDC_Link

> 
> Ah, yes, that happens.

A southern Nimby is worth ten in the north. UK PLC is run entirely for 
the benefit of Londoners and residents of the Home Counties.

We generate insane amounts of electricity in the north (and always have 
done since coal fired power) now mostly offshore wind and in Scotland on 
shore. The links to the south where it is needed are sadly lacking.

NESO couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

-- 
Martin Brown