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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Australia Bans Prayers for Troons-- Up to 5 Years in Prison for Unauthorized Praying
Date: Sat, 3 May 2025 19:44:04 -0000 (UTC)
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On May 3, 2025 at 12:25:54 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 5/3/2025 2:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>  On May 3, 2025 at 11:12:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>  
>>>  On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>    On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>>    On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima
>>>>>> facie
>>>>>>    claim
>>>>>>      that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
>>>>>>  South
>>>>>>      Wales were to read it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>    "Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
>>>>>    believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>    This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
>>>>    
>>>>    So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging
>>>> someone
>>>>  to
>>>>    transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them
>>>> *not*
>>>>  to
>>>>    transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the
>>>>  power
>>>>    of the state reinforcing it.
>>> 
>>>  I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW.  But I
>>>  don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .
>>  
>>  The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress
>>  their sexuality or gender identity".
>>  
>>  A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in
>>  counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why
>>  would they not be guilty of violating this law?
> 
> Because 'encouragement' (i.e., advice) is part of normal (i.e., 
> consensual) discourse ...whereas 'prayer' goes beyond advice by invoking 
> the unilateral intercession of an all-powerful despot.

Not necessarily. Depending on one's theology, prayer doesn't directly call for
magic from an omnipotent sky-tyrant.

Is Australia going to be sorting out who gets prosecuted for unlawful prayer
and who doesn't on the basis of each religion's specific mythology?